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HMS Fowey 44 - Gun 1744 by AllanKP69

RichardG said:
I'm not sure about bamboo dowel as it seems to me that the vascular system/pores would be too visible to simulate iron,
Click to expand...
I use bamboo for treenails all the time but for the bolts in the keel, the scraphs were bolted with copper rather than iron. For iron I use copper and diluted liver of sulfur once the "bolts" are in place as the liquid instantly blackens the copper and does not stain the wood. In this case I want to try for the verdigris color rather than black.

Will give it a try in the next day or two. Golf and fishing have gotten in the way of modeling this weekend, but that is a good thing:)

Allan
 
Some wood working got done today, I think I spent more time gathering information on these parts in the past weeks than the construction itself.
I cannot find specific dimensions for the keel for a 44 of 1741-1745. I looked at the dimensions from the 1719 Establishment scantlings for a 50 gun and the 1745 Establishment for a 40 gun. They are really close so I am comfortable using an average of the two sets. If anyone has better information, that would be great, I have no problems remaking them. They are marked in pencil as 13 7/8" square at midships, 12 5/8" at the fore end and 9 1/4" at the aft end. The taper matches the stern post and rudder aft and gripe forward.
Allan

1780863010355.jpeg

The fifty gun ship keels had five pieces according to the Establishment. The 40 gun had four. I have gun with four in this case. These are the pieces all made from 0,29" square. The scarfs are based on information from Goodwin and are 42" long.

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The aft piece and forward piece have been tapered as shown in the picture below.

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Next will the boxing joint then the hog and rabbet. These are NOT my favorite things to do. So many do overs in the past..... :eek:

Allan
 
My research during Centurion build had it that the keel had a "Z" scarph, but that the "Z" was on the top and bottom face.
From the side it would look like a simple butt join.
I have never been able to develop the discipline to make file cards with the reference for the myriad "facts" involved in this. I tell myself that I will always remember where I found something and of course I don't.
I always go for quick and dirty so I just used a simple butt join. Humans do not have eyes on the ends of stalks so it is impossible to see that the vertical line is in the same place P&S. The false keel would hide the bottom "Z".
For a museum I would give serious consideration to a blind #50 Bamboo peg in the center to make separation in any direction more difficult.

I am impressed with just how narrow the keel is under the rudder when compared to midship.
 
Thanks Dean,
The scarfs at that time, according to Peter Goodwin in The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War, were vertical and they were actually more complex than what I show in that they had some variation of coaks as well.
Allan
 
AllanKP69 said:
Thanks Dean,
The scarfs at that time, according to Peter Goodwin in The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War, were vertical and they were actually more complex than what I show in that they had some variation of coaks as well.
Allan
Click to expand...

With a project like this and after the initial research, do you produce a unique set of orthographic plans for the parts?
 
RichardG said:
do you produce a unique set of orthographic plans for the parts
Click to expand...
Thanks for your note Richard. I must admit I didn't know what orthographic plans were until I looked it up just now. I make drawings based on the originals plans and scantlings in 2D as needed, including the keel pieces above. It may be just one view and sometimes two if I know the third dimension. I hope that answers your question. An example are deck plans. Below is a deck plan for this ship that I did in 2D then had printed at a local archtectural print shop. I make the drawings at 100% full scale first then make a copy at whatever scale I need, in this case 1:48. I will make a drawing of a beam on each deck to show the round up but not an end view as I have scantling for the moulded dimension.

Thanks again for asking I learned a new term today! :)
Allan

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I did some experimenting last night with producing a verdigris color on the keel scarph bolts which were copper on the actual ships.

After drilling and inserting the copper wire, in this case 1" (#24 wire for 1:48 scale) it was filed and then wiped clean to get rid of any loose copper dust filings.
The easiest way to darken copper in situ is with liver of sulfur but it is black, not verdigris in color. I tried vinegar and salt on one pair, one part Miracle Gro fertilizer granules to three parts red wine vinegar on another pair, and one pair untreated. It is subtle, but there is a difference between the treated and untreated bolts. The Miracle Gro and red wine vinegar is my choice as it does not rub off as easily as the vinegar and salt treatment. For the vinegar and salt a clear acrylic coat helps protect the coating from rubbing off.

Test comparison. The sheet on the right is treated with the Miracle Gro and red wine vinegar. This ship did not have a copper bottom but I thought to try it to see how it looks. I think it is too dark for bottom plating, but some experimenting with proportions may get better results.

Allan

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RichardG said:
It's difficult to tell from the photos, but is there any bleeding of colour into the surrounding wood?
Click to expand...
Richard
Looking at it with 4 power there is no staining. But, I did not clean the filings as much as I should have in the test run, These filings took on the color as well and left a hazy ring rather than a crisp edge. Going to try another test and include a set blackened with liver of sulfur to show the difference. A big plus with LoS is that it is used well diluted and it does not stain the wood.
Allan
 
I'm particularly interested in seeing this, Allan. I tried liver of sulfur and got a halo of staining in the surrounding wood - way less than I got with Brass Black but still...
 
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