HMS PANDORA 1:72 - Modelship Dockyard

RogerD said:
I just logged in this afternoon and was pleased to see you have started on your Pandora. A great first post with photos, graphics and reasoning why and how you will progress with this build. I have my fold-up chair and look forward to following along.
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It's great to have you here, Roger - it just wouldn't be the same without you. If my log can help others, then it is mission accomplished. I have derived just as much pleasure from @Pathfinder65 Jan's build of his Willem Barentsz as I did from my own, and to me that is what it is all about.
 
Dear Friends

I would like to draw your attention to something that is particular to the build of this model and that the builder needs to pay attention to.

The model is designed so that the resin parts which are inserted as bow and stern sections are ever so slightly oversized in width when compared to the foremost and rearmost bulkheads which they butt up against. This is done so that the first layer of planking (that I am busy with right now) can lie flush with the resin inserts.

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The red arrow points to where the resin insert at the bow is ever so slightly proud of the stem bulkhead which it butts up against. Theoretically speaking, the difference in size would be made up by the thickness of the first layer of planking.

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Once the first layer of planking has been laid down it will fill lie flush with the resin insert.

Now, back to my build.

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After @wuxiaomeng Wuxi had seen this picture in my post last night, he contacted me immediately and said that it looks like I have not sanded the bulkheads sufficiently which, in turn, would mean that my planking would stand proud of the resin inserts.

Sanded frames.png
As reference, Wuxi referred me to this picture of another Pandora build which shows that the frames have been faired to a much greater extent than mine.

Now the way that I see it is that during the fairing process there are three probabilities. One, everything is done perfectly and there are no issues. Two, the frames have not been faired enough (I paid a lot of attention to the beveling of the frames though) and the planks will stand slightly proud of the resin inserts, and, three, too much material has been removed from the frames and the level of the first planking is BELOW that of the resin insert. In my book, I would prefer the planking standing slightly proud, because I can always sand the planks to fit, but if one needs to start filling up gaps, that opens up an entirely different can of worms.

Also, I don't think how the planks blend in with the resin inserts is determined by the sanding of the frames but rather by the actual beveling of the frames - and as mentioned earlier - I thought I had done that correctly. However, there was only one way of telling for sure. I cut off the excess plank lengths, filed the planking flush to the stern and stem bulkheads and test fitted the resin pieces.

Stern.jpg
Stern

Bow.jpg

To me, it looks pretty much the planking is flush with the resin parts. I think this looks fine and based on this, I will continue with the planking. Whether my decision is going to come back and bite me, I will have to wait and see ...
 
rtibbs said:
My how time flys Heinrich, is it July already :) I Knew once you opened the box you couldn't wait to begin construction. Something we're all afflicted with I guess.
In any case I'm glad to see you back at modeling.
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Hi Ron - so good to see you. I would love to hear how you have been progressing with either the Port Jackson Schooner or the Statenjacht. Yes, I did make time fly! ROTF With the little bonus of an off-Friday, I couldn't resist the temptation to start.
 
Looking ahead a little I wondered, when you get to the second planking, how you will approach the glue issue.

The adherence transition from the first layer of wood planks to the resin pieces at the bow and stern means, I assume, the application of CA glue? I went back to Peter’s @Peter Voogt post to you on your other thread and see that he has a glue suggestion. However, I guess using CA means getting it right first time with no re-do’s. You have the knowledge and experience as a fine ship model builder to get it right first time but I wonder how this would be for a newbie modeller where, as it is to all of us, second planking accuracy is just as important. At least with traditional builds the use of PVA type glues means re-do’s are possible, something probably not possible with wood glued with CA on resin.

A drawback of the use of the new practice of mixing resin pieces with wood? Just a thought :).
 
RogerD said:
Looking ahead a little I wondered, when you get to the second planking, how you will approach the glue issue.

The adherence transition from the first layer of wood planks to the resin pieces at the bow and stern means, I assume, the application of CA glue? I went back to Peter’s @Peter Voogt post to you on your other thread and see that he has a glue suggestion. However, I guess using CA means getting it right first time with no re-do’s. You have the knowledge and experience as a fine ship model builder to get it right first time but I wonder how this would be for a newbie modeller where, as it is to all of us, second planking accuracy is just as important. At least with traditional builds the use of PVA type glues means re-do’s are possible, something probably not possible with wood glued with CA on resin.

A drawback of the use of the new practice of mixing resin pieces with wood? Just a thought :).
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Roger, you read my mind. I am just as wary of using CA glue on the resin pieces. Trust me the second planking accuracy is vital on this model - I believe it will stand or fall by the accuracy and cleanliness of the second planking. And what makes thing more interesting is that the planks are pre-cut with scarph joints which have to be aligned. I actually asked Modelship Dockyard if they could create a special model for me where I could shape the bow and stern filler pieces myself out of wood. They were willing to do this, but in the end, I thought, what the heck - let's give the new technology a go!
 
Hello @Heinrich and @RogerD when it comes to the question of which glue you could use, I can recommend this CA glue, but I didn't know if it was available from you. My experience is very good, it is a gel that has the properties to adhere to wood, plastic and metal, with the small difference that it does not stick straight away and you can still make corrections.

Sekundenkleber Gel für Holz & Holzwerkstoffe - 20g https://amzn.eu/d/0COrty6

Superglue gel 20g for bonding small contact surfaces with narrow joint gaps for wood and wood-based materials. Fills gaps up to half a millimeter.
Other materials such as B. Natural rubber, aluminum, stainless steel, fiberglass, PVC, porcelain can be easily glued to wood.
The highly viscous adhesive is ideal for gluing end-grain wood or for corner connections as well as for gluing workpieces and stencils.
The adhesive areas are heat and solvent resistant. This wood glue is a very fast curing adhesive.
Ideal for repairing hairline cracks and small wood defects or for repairing loose veneer edges.
 
Tobias said:
Hello @Heinrich and @RogerD when it comes to the question of which glue you could use, I can recommend this CA glue, but I didn't know if it was available from you. My experience is very good, it is a gel that has the properties to adhere to wood, plastic and metal, with the small difference that it does not stick straight away and you can still make corrections.

Sekundenkleber Gel für Holz & Holzwerkstoffe - 20g https://amzn.eu/d/0COrty6

Superglue gel 20g for bonding small contact surfaces with narrow joint gaps for wood and wood-based materials. Fills gaps up to half a millimeter.
Other materials such as B. Natural rubber, aluminum, stainless steel, fiberglass, PVC, porcelain can be easily glued to wood.
The highly viscous adhesive is ideal for gluing end-grain wood or for corner connections as well as for gluing workpieces and stencils.
The adhesive areas are heat and solvent resistant. This wood glue is a very fast curing adhesive.
Ideal for repairing hairline cracks and small wood defects or for repairing loose veneer edges.
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Thank you very much for the recommendation, Tobias. I will have a look to see if it available on Taobao.
 
Good afternoon Heinrich. I’m a little late to the party, however will certainly pull up my hammock. Off to a fine start. I did follow Donnie’s awesome build of the Pandora so you have some fine references. I also thought the resin parts a little weird. They do provide a wonderful base for the stern and bow shape tho. Cheers Grant
 
Welcome my friend and no worries about being late. I understand the part of employees dropping the ball and you having to take up the slack only too well - and I know how time-consuming it is. The resin parts are novel to say the least - if they work (and there is no reason to believe they won't) - it can change the way I think about model building. If I had never shaped bow and stern fillers or built gunports before, I would not have gone this route as I believe those are skills that all builders should acquire. However, all my builds have been single planked up to now, I have boxed and shaped the whole hull of WB 2 and have built enough gunports to know what it's all about. That is why I wanted to build this ship. Resin parts, double planking, pre-shaped planks and decks etc. are all new to me!
 
Heinrich said:
Resin parts, double planking, pre-shaped planks and decks etc. are all new to me!
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My former Engineering Manager once told me that he felt it was always a good day when one learned something new. I envision many 'good days' ahead for you. Enjoy the build Heinrich. We will all be watching/waiting for your insights.
 
rtibbs said:
My former Engineering Manager once told me that he felt it was always a good day when one learned something new. I envision many 'good days' ahead for you. Enjoy the build Heinrich. We will all be watching/waiting for your insights.
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Thank you very much, Ron. I agree with your former Engineering Manager - to me the time was ripe was ripe to try something new and to force myself to learn some new skills. I'm keeping a very open mind to things and am very willing to be convinced about the merits of new technology. Having said that, I will also not hesitate to say if it is not to my liking or does not suit my building style. Time will tell.
 
Heinrich said:
I'm keeping a very open mind to things and am very willing to be convinced about the merits of new technology. Having said that, I will also not hesitate to say if it is not to my liking or does not suit my building style. Time will tell.
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I envy the new the new voyage you are about to begin. I know it will be fascinating and informative for all of us in the audience.

Jan
 
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