HMS Sovereign of the Seas belfry question

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS

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Hello friends,

I have noticed several different variations of the belfry on models of HMS Sovereign of the Seas. Some are half recessed into the forecastle, some are an individual standing structure, and the new book cover coming out in a week shows no befry at all. What evidence do we have on the design of the befry for SotS? If there is no information available, what information of the English befry exists to draw a conclusion on and make an interpretation?

Examples...

Standalone structure behind forecastle. DeAgostini:
DeAgostini.jpg

Standalone structure on forecastle deck. Mantua build by Denis R:
Denis R - Mantua.png

Embedded within forecastle. Build by Doris Obručová:
Doris O.jpg

Embedded within forecastle. Build by Janos:
Janos DSC_0796.JPG

Standalone structure on forecastle. Mantua build by Pirozzi:
Mantua by Pirozzi.png


Standalone structure on poop deck. Seppings, Greenwich England:
Seppings.jpg

No belfry. John McKay's Sovereign of the Seas 1637, A Reconstruction of the Most Powerful Warship of its Day, April 1, 2020:
New Book Cover 2020.jpg
 
Kurt,McKay is right,we don't know,in fact there are many things we don't know about this ship.I have ordered the book myself,I know many things in it are different to how I perceive them to be.I feel in some aspects Sephton's book my be better

Sovereign of the Seas: The Seventeenth-Century Warship: Amazon.co.uk: Sephton, James: 9781445601687: Books

Buy Sovereign of the Seas: The Seventeenth-Century Warship First Edition by Sephton, James (ISBN: 9781445601687) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.
www.amazon.co.uk

Kind Regards

Nigel
 
Most of the information has been taken from this:

This article is highly critical of the Sergal kit and gives lots of links to go further. I took ideas from it not only for the cannon barrels but also for the belfry etc.
And I try to consult the James Lees book (Masting and rigging...)... sometimes it goes, sometimes it doesn't... The decorations have been taken mostly from the Busmann-book. I did not exclude some artistic freedom either. (ie. the stairs to the belfry)
Janos
 
Last edited:
Hi Kurt
I know that there are not much in books about the belfry of the Sovereign, but I know a little about it.
Long time ago (1970) I was starting with my searching of information of the development of English ships of the line from the time of the Armada
till the end of the 17th. Century. Therefore too about the Sovereign of the Seas. In the University of Cambridge, Oxford, National Maritime Museum,
and so on. I took all on information what was possible and find out, that always by changing a design of a new ships to be build, was a political reason.
The same was by Charles I. Stuart. His dad James I. Stuart was not a King of the genealogical tree of the English Kings, from Lancaster, York, Tudor.
His grandmother was Mary Stuart who was decapitated by Elisabeth I. Tudor. Charles I. was a King with a lot of problems. The Thirty Year War,
the problem that his wife was French and a Catholic and also to show the world that he was the greatest King. So he let built the Sovereign of the Seas
to show wit her decoration what he was. His right to be the King he show in all parts of the ships decoration and too by the Belfry.
Janos told you from the model of Doris and I must say that the belfry he made was after the belfry I constructed for Wolfgang Rotter in 1990
The construction with the four Animals on the corners of the belfry was also mentioned in Hendrik Busmans Buch about the decoration of the Sovereign.
More about the Model of Wolfgans Sovereign you see in close ups by. SoS A little bit carving and the model of the Sovereign.

regards
Willi (schifferlbauer)

glo1.jpgglo2.jpgwap3.jpgs01.jpgSovereign,Sovereign - Kopie.jpg​
 
schifferlbauer said:
Hi Kurt
I know that there are not much in books about the belfry of the Sovereign, but I know a little about it.
Long time ago (1970) I was starting with my searching of information of the development of English ships of the line from the time of the Armada
till the end of the 17th. Century. Therefore too about the Sovereign of the Seas. In the University of Cambridge, Oxford, National Maritime Museum,
and so on. I took all on information what was possible and find out, that always by changing a design of a new ships to be build, was a political reason.
The same was by Charles I. Stuart. His dad James I. Stuart was not a King of the genealogical tree of the English Kings, from Lancaster, York, Tudor.
His grandmother was Mary Stuart who was decapitated by Elisabeth I. Tudor. Charles I. was a King with a lot of problems. The Thirty Year War,
the problem that his wife was French and a Catholic and also to show the world that he was the greatest King. So he let built the Sovereign of the Seas
to show wit her decoration what he was. His right to be the King he show in all parts of the ships decoration and too by the Belfry.
Janos told you from the model of Doris and I must say that the belfry he made was after the belfry I constructed for Wolfgang Rotter in 1990
The construction with the four Animals on the corners of the belfry was also mentioned in Hendrik Busmans Buch about the decoration of the Sovereign.
More about the Model of Wolfgans Sovereign you see in close ups by. SoS A little bit carving and the model of the Sovereign.

regards
Willi (schifferlbauer)
Click to expand...
Vielen Dank, Willi! I notice you are in Austria. Meine Familie kommt auch aus Österreich. Thanks for the background information on the beflry. The whole story of the British royal line is like reading the script of a soap opera.
 
Very good additional information - many Thanks Willi for this research data.
Best Regards from another "Austrian" - Hope to see you soon in our next meeting, maybe already in May
 
i love this ship, no i am obsessed with it , lucky me I live in London UK so I have access the to the maritime museum in Greenwich . sad;ly the library was closed on Saturday and the scale model has been moved to a different location, somerset house, strand , but they still have the famous painting of her stern and few ship of the same era , very similar ornament and structure , so it give us a general idea of what was the fashion at the time zoomed in pics from the painting

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DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
Vielen Dank, Willi! I notice you are in Austria. Meine Familie kommt auch aus Österreich. Thanks for the background information on the beflry. The whole story of the British royal line is like reading the script of a soap opera.
Click to expand...
ypur work is just amazing , the step by step of the build is a dream , thank you sooooo much cant wait to start mine
 
maddog harry said:
i love this ship, no i am obsessed with it , lucky me I live in London UK so I have access the to the maritime museum in Greenwich . sad;ly the library was closed on Saturday and the scale model has been moved to a different location, somerset house, strand , but they still have the famous painting of her stern and few ship of the same era , very similar ornament and structure , so it give us a general idea of what was the fashion at the time zoomed in pics from the painting

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Thank you SO MUCH for providing us with close up photos of Lely's Portrait of Peter Pett! These are rare, detailed primary source material for those of us like me who are tackling the daunting task of modeling this legendary ship. :D Thumbs-Up
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
Thank you SO MUCH for providing us with close up photos of Lely's Portrait of Peter Pett! These are rare, detailed primary source material for those of us like me who are tackling the daunting task of modeling this legendary ship. :D Thumbs-Up
Click to expand...
i fell you, i am in the same process with her, I will come back to the library museum as they have a very good book with all the carvings details, etc.. ad take a pic of it and go to the somerset house as soon as I can to see up close the sale model
 
Hi maddog harry

The Sovereign of the seas to built as ship model make a lot of problems. May be it would help you a little to look in this forum the tread
"A little bit about carving and the sovereign of the seas model hand carved in pear wood " ( carving and decoration )
If you would like to know a little bit more about the ships of the 17. Century you can take a look of my website www. schifferlbauer. com,
sorry only in German

Regards Willi (schifferlbauer)
 
schifferlbauer said:
Hi maddog harry

The Sovereign of the seas to built as ship model make a lot of problems. May be it would help you a little to look in this forum the tread
"A little bit about carving and the sovereign of the seas model hand carved in pear wood " ( carving and decoration )
If you would like to know a little bit more about the ships of the 17. Century you can take a look of my website www. schifferlbauer. com,
sorry only in German

Regards Willi (schifferlbauer)
Click to expand...
what tools did you use to carve all the ornaments for the sots, you have a amazing website love all the pics
 
how much would you charge to get all the deco carved same scales as you ? no need painting just carved , I will paid anything to get that amount of details on my ship same as yours
 
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