HMS TYGRE IIIb - Trial of conversion in 1:100

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Hello Friends of the cardboard!

I did some braintraining this morning while on my way
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with Herrmann and Oratio on our morning walk. There will be during the next weeks or month No Time and inner calmness for building more than an half an hour or one on my BELLE POULE Kit. So I can thinking and research while on my way from and to work. Perchange I could do some sketches and doodlings, too. But this would be my possibility for the time untill Christmas (at minimum) or so.

So I do need something to think about and I did find
HMS TYGER 1681

what is one of the most often drawn ship by the Van de Veldes.

Here a contemporary ship ADVENTURE I may use for the gun port arrangement (I have to weite the named onto the drawings as my stupid smartphone doesn't show the data's name) so I have got an other 44-gunner for comparison. Also the transom's area is quite similar

Polish_20210911_063703089.jpg


And for rebuilding the 1:100

englische-Fregatte-Mordaunt-aus-dem-Jahr-1681-1100-extrem-uebersetzt_12583.jpg
Oriel Kit of HMS MORDAUNT with 46 guns of 1681 into HMS TYGER of 1681 a 44-gun vessel is the idea - also it isn't the such expensive kit as BELLONA would be if I may faul. What is the reason I do start here to avoid this - but a second trial isn't that financial breakdown as with a wooden kit ist would be.


There are five very good views of her handed over to us by Van de Velde three in the Dutch Bojiman's Museum in Rotterdam and two in the NMM.

There we're several TYGERS in the Royal Navy so a short excurse into history and my normenclatura may be of intrest:
As I do number the ship by Roman numbers and any (re)build get's a letter so the second TYGER in it's as build shape will be called "TYGER IIa" - by this the complexibility is reduced.

A Brief History
The First HMS TYGER Ia was a 22-gun ship of 1546 in 1570 she was rebuild into TYGER Ib and after 1600 serving as a floating battery TYGER Ic that condemed in 1605.

The next HMS TYGER II was a Expedition vessel built in 1613 Not really much is known about.

The TYGER IIIb is my object and was Part of the line of a TYGERs being rebuild several times:
TYGER IIIa 1647
TYGER IIIb 1681
TYGER IIIc 1701
TYGER IIId 1705
and
TYGER IIIe 1721 being lost on a riff in 1746.

Harwich_(1743);_Colchester_(1744)_RMG_J4058.jpg
The next TYGER IVa was written TIGER and a 50 gun ship build in 1743 and renamed HARWICH shortly before her launch.


TYGER Va
Proposal_for_1745_Establishment_60-gun_Fourth_Rates._RMG_J3473.jpg
was a 60 gun vessel of the 1745 Establishment of 1218 15⁄94 tons.
As TYGER Vb in 1760 she was converted into a hulk and in 1765 sold out of the Navy.

The TYGER VIb was a Spanisch ship of 1747 called TIGRE in Spanisch duties before caputered in the 23.VIII.1762 a 74-gun-vessel serving in the Royal Navy untill sold in 1780.

HMS TYGER VIa
was a 64-gun third rate launched in 1764 as HMS Ardent. She was captured by the French in 1764, but was recaptured in 1782 and renamed HMS Tiger. She was sold in 1784.

TYGER VIIa 1802(from before her launch called GRAMPUS)
1280px-H.M.S._Grampus,_a_hospital_ship,_lying_off_Deptford_Creek,_G_Wellcome_V0013354.jpg
The repair and refit in 1810 making her TYGER VIIb. 1836 she was stricken from the navy's list.

TYGER VIIIa of 1794 was a four gun Dutch hoy purchased by the Admiratity for the squadron of the Channel Islands together with four sister ships.


The next TYGER IXb was a French Tèmériere class ship of the Line with 80 guns.

TYGER IXa
was a 12gun Brig in Service between 1808 to 1812.

TYGER Xa 1846

f7747_001.jpg
was a wooden hulled paddlewheeled steam frigat of 12 guns and Mist interesting she had a

f7747_002.jpg
highly modern solid round stern with an anacrinistic transom sunk near Ordesse by the grounding in the Crimean war one of her guns is still in display in Odessa.

HMS_Chamois_(1896)_IWM_Q_038460.jpg
TYGER XI was a 30-knots-C-class Destroyer launched 19.V 1900 and sank in collision with HMS BERWICK 02. IV. 1908.


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The next ist the Battlecruiser TYGER launched 15.XII.1913 and was scapped in 1932.

And the Last RN's TYGER XIIIa
1280px-Engels_vlootbezoek_aan_Rotterdam_De_Engelse_kruiser_Tiger_loopt_binnen,_Bestanddeelnr_9...jpg

was the 1945 build as a cruiser and rebuild as a Missile Cruiser in 1959.

But after going into history back to our modeling project.


px6251.jpg
TYGER (IIIb 1681)
Here the beautyfull Stern View showing the enclosement of the most outstanding Windows by paintings (for shure on wood) parallel to the CWL.

pz7304.jpg
This view from the starboard bow view does give us some Idea of the arrangement of the gunports - but it doesn't fit to the proofed 1681 picture above in the gunports piercing the wales. In the upper picture four gunports are cut into the wale in this drawing only the Last two do the same. So Here we May have the later TYGER (Ic) after the



So my idea is to use the basic hull of the MORDAUNT kit and alter it towards the wales, gunport positions and cladding the new quarter gallery design and the canged gunport onto this hull. (The other project after her will be taking the HMS LEOPARD of 1776 altering her into the beautiful HMS EXPERIMENT of 1775 with her bright colours.)

So the gunports need to be altered in position and the detailling does need correction. But when I stay with the hull and do use the given parts - changing them in detail it may work.
MB 1866-T 387 (PK).jpg
This picture shows clearly the cutting in Wales and the positions of the gun ports.
MB 1866-T 356 (PK).jpg
This picture shows an other Angle of View where the wales are identical and are pierced only by the last two gunports the stern nearest gun port is completly in the wales on it's stern side...
MB 1866-T 355 (PK).jpg
Again here - so this may be for shure the same TYGER IIIb
The_'Fairfax',_'Assurance',_'Tiger'_and_'Elizabeth'_RMG_BHC3334.jpg

In this painting she is shown in the right hand Corner but the picture over the row of windows seems to be summarized in one big picture...
images (49).jpeg
...and not seperated into ten fractions. But the wales and gunports shapes are identical.
pz7304.jpg
So after all the discussions this sideview is identical to the wales but when we look on the gunports of the upper Deck there are suppenly round gunports no quare ones. So May this be a artistical surgery giving to us TYGER IIIb1?

What do you think about this idea?

What do you think is the idea of taking MORDAUNT as a basis a good idea?
 
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Thanks a lot Bryian, Indeed IT really needed some time to complete - sorry for this - and yesterday I was so wrecked I had had to sleep nearly all day.
So no real progress has been in here with out the helpfull video by Philip Reed I found between my naps:
And I looked the Endsor's book
about MORDAUNT in my mind recognized I already bought it...

...and took it out of the shipping basket.

And being thank full for building in 1/96 or 1/8" to the foot and not in 1/16" to the foot die to my eyes.

flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg

But one thing is Mr.Reed makes absolutely clear:
Modelbuilding it isn't only a hobby -
it is a passion.




Have a nice week - hopefully I do find some time for doodlings of my ideas at all.
 
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Trying my sketching Tool TAYASUI SKETCHES for the very first time to get an idea how it works and where the hell to find my safed data.
But as you can see ist does work fine.
Sketches 2.png
It is Just the Idea to lay two layers of paper onto each other (and than "grease" the sharp edges by thicker colour to get them rounded a bit - not in the picture).
So this my be the way to sculpturing I have had adopted from Beethoven:
unnamed (32).jpgBEETHON.jpg
So my decorational elements will look before "greasing" them - hopefully.

Memo to myself:
I have to lower the layer's thickness.
 
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Viewing on the pictures

I.
This three pictures do show TYGER IIIb for shure:

MB 1866-T 387 (PK).jpgMB 1866-T 355 (PK).jpgMB 1866-T 356 (PK).jpg
with rectangular Upper Deck (UD) gunports.
But what about this drawing?

pz7304.jpg
As the hull is very similar - only the UD's gunports differ in being round - wrong ship or TYGER IIIba as a refitting to newish style? Should I use IT or sort it out being wrong for the rebuilding project? Staying concentrated on what is closly similar?

II.
I was able to Break Up the transom details of the vdV drawing
px6251.jpg
Into sections to work on seperatly:

IMG_20210913_080418.jpg
Here the port side with it's rectangular panels and the shared feaming - it it in the third pannels from port side a Kind of a ventilation lid or a Tracht litter or a toilet part? Or can it be some kind of Micro gun Port Lid for a swyvel-gun?

IMG_20210913_080435.jpg
IT Looks as the windows the Lower Deck (LD) gunports seem to be twice equipped with guns?

Here in the central window had had hinges opening to the inside, isn't it? We're all windows like this?

IMG_20210913_080459.jpg
The figural sculptures are very rich and detailled Here in the drawing thanks a lot to the fantastic Artist Work everything is clear and comes together very well when looking in it for a while.


This for now and from me...
 
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Quite some Van de Velde pictures and I due to it's plans get some ideas - but I am unshure if rebuilding TYGER IIIb from the Oriel Kit and scratchbuilding TIGER IIIb from cardboard IS a good idea.
 
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So let's start with somthing easy in this transom the picture of a person at the port end of the the window's row.
Polish_20210914_065810043.jpg
To me personally it looked Like a hat or in this epoque Helmer being weared - I didn't find any assumptions in Endsor's book Yesterday evening but I think it may be king's portrait in a jousting helmet so I was following this path of an idea.

unnamed (33).jpgmain-image (1).jpegmain-image.jpeg
And did collect some late Renaissance Parade helmets for the reference - nothing 100% fitting by my first trial but close enough mit to give up the hope and following this track for a while.

426e6c41d9985f380c37f243aef9fc19.jpgSo above my first findings surrounding the the pannel and the pictures in their astonishing beauty - some where Italien, some French not an English one was with them.
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And some did show astonishing restaurator's Artwork...
DT781.jpg
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And impressive enough to like the work on this research as a part of the project in it's own right.
 
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Thanks Igor, I so know this Rendering but I am highly in doubt to some Details as exactly with these panel's Interpretation when I started dealing with art history.

I think it is a great part of Work to get this model to this state of the art and I do want to go a step further on.

Polish_20210914_212401345.jpg
I think your Interpretation IS right from the Point of View that may be during the English Civil War and the republican years but I do look on the decor by a restitional Interpretation - placing the near absoluticstic king in the center of the state and the thinking of this period. So these parade helmets came immediadly into my mind - Not suitable die jousting anylonger but able to Show cultural development, skilled artist's handcrafted work, Well balanced taste and certainly wealth all in one and so I did choose this way.
 
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Somthing is coming more and more clear it really is more

Polish_20210915_130736834.jpg
to be a helmet of a in our eyes strange layout than an ordinary and simple hat.
So I have to finde some pices of the so called "Parade Armor" for King Charles II. That may be known in public so it could have been used as a prototype for this painting in the panel - or it was pure propaganda painting work of an armour that never really existed - but was nice to look at (even to the King who was closly tieded by his naval interest to TYGER IIIb as Endson shows in a extra painting of his visit to her in the spectecular moment of His standart being raised.

So I had yesterday no time to do anything to the model at all... :-/
 
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