I build kits. What are the challenges of scratch building. Quality of wood? Skill with power tools? Research? Are Seawatch's books worth the investment?
-
"LUCZORAMA SHIPWRECK SCAVENGER HUNT GIVEAWAY RAFFLE"
Luczorama is proud to launch a 4-week scavenger hunt giveaway packed with creativity, laughs, and nautical nonsense. Explore historic ships, solve easy clues, and have some fun with fellow builders. Complete weekly missions to earn raffle entries — the more you join in, the better your chance to win a Fram model ship by OcCre!
**VIEW RULES HERE**
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2024
- Messages
- 818
- Points
- 298
I think that everyone’s challenges are different, For me research is fun and something that I consider that I’m good at. Quality of materials, including wood, is actually a reason TO scratch build as you have control of quality and can select what you believe to be the most appropriate for a given application.
I believe that many modelers do not build from scratch because they lack space for power tools and the dirt that they create. Assuming that one has invested in power tools, they are not difficult to use. They are also not absolutely necessary. See the remarkable models that Bob Wilson (Shipbuilder) has built with basic hand tools. I suspect that unlike in past times, a bigger challenge for many is lack of confidence using hand tools.
For me, the challenge, which I enjoy, is figuring out how to build things. Sometimes it’s necessary to try several approaches before getting it right. One needs the patience to scrap a defective part and to start over; maybe several times!
Seawatch publishes high quality books and in the day when many ordinary hardback books sell for at least $30 they are not overpriced. They are also selling to a very limited market so don’t benefit from economies of scale enjoyed by other publishers. If they have published a book on a subject that interests you they are a good value.
The reason why I scratch build is to build unique models of unique subjects. Even when a kit for something that interests me is available, building it from scratch allows me to give the model its own “personality.” Doing my own research, choosing my own materials and modeling techniques is all part of the process.
Roger
I believe that many modelers do not build from scratch because they lack space for power tools and the dirt that they create. Assuming that one has invested in power tools, they are not difficult to use. They are also not absolutely necessary. See the remarkable models that Bob Wilson (Shipbuilder) has built with basic hand tools. I suspect that unlike in past times, a bigger challenge for many is lack of confidence using hand tools.
For me, the challenge, which I enjoy, is figuring out how to build things. Sometimes it’s necessary to try several approaches before getting it right. One needs the patience to scrap a defective part and to start over; maybe several times!
Seawatch publishes high quality books and in the day when many ordinary hardback books sell for at least $30 they are not overpriced. They are also selling to a very limited market so don’t benefit from economies of scale enjoyed by other publishers. If they have published a book on a subject that interests you they are a good value.
The reason why I scratch build is to build unique models of unique subjects. Even when a kit for something that interests me is available, building it from scratch allows me to give the model its own “personality.” Doing my own research, choosing my own materials and modeling techniques is all part of the process.
Roger
Thanx! Sets me on a future course. Gotta dig thru the griup builds for info. Agree about books and the limited market.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2024
- Messages
- 818
- Points
- 298
Allow me to add something that I learned from a Seawatch book and all too often fail to put into practice.
Ed Tosti is a great scratch ship model builder who has written several books published by Seawatch. He writes that there are two ways to improve the quality of your work; improve your skill or improve your process. Of the two by far the easiest and therefore the most productive is to improve your process. Trying the same thing over and over again hoping that your skill will improve seldom works.
Roger
Ed Tosti is a great scratch ship model builder who has written several books published by Seawatch. He writes that there are two ways to improve the quality of your work; improve your skill or improve your process. Of the two by far the easiest and therefore the most productive is to improve your process. Trying the same thing over and over again hoping that your skill will improve seldom works.
Roger
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2024
- Messages
- 112
- Points
- 78
it's all in your head.
I can only speak for mine, and even that can't be relied on. So called scratch building is merely taking a set of line drawings, and some trees - well, some timber - and making the full size ship, but smaller.
If you have simple tools, such as shipwrights used, and the desire, you can build anything at all.
Ignore whatever the kit makers want to sell you. Use the drawings to produce the individual frames. Use saws and hand planes, (and some thicknessing jigs) to produce the raw material a shipwright would start with, then chisels, or scalpels, to accurately cut the parts to size. Make a miniature dowelling jig, and use it to make toenails to fasten the parts together.
Read all about how best to fit the planks and other parts, and how the rigging supports the masts and controls the sails, and replicate it all in miniature. Look at your work and smile.
Then think 'I can do better next time'. and look for another interesting ship or boat and some drawings....
Repeat.
You will enjoy al the knowledge and support here.
Jim - in Northumberland, still making wooden boats by 'hand' (and 'lectric)
I can only speak for mine, and even that can't be relied on. So called scratch building is merely taking a set of line drawings, and some trees - well, some timber - and making the full size ship, but smaller.
If you have simple tools, such as shipwrights used, and the desire, you can build anything at all.
Ignore whatever the kit makers want to sell you. Use the drawings to produce the individual frames. Use saws and hand planes, (and some thicknessing jigs) to produce the raw material a shipwright would start with, then chisels, or scalpels, to accurately cut the parts to size. Make a miniature dowelling jig, and use it to make toenails to fasten the parts together.
Read all about how best to fit the planks and other parts, and how the rigging supports the masts and controls the sails, and replicate it all in miniature. Look at your work and smile.
Then think 'I can do better next time'. and look for another interesting ship or boat and some drawings....
Repeat.
You will enjoy al the knowledge and support here.
Jim - in Northumberland, still making wooden boats by 'hand' (and 'lectric)
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2024
- Messages
- 818
- Points
- 298
For me, same idea though my current model is a steel hulled steamship.
I like that. I need to walk away from a problem or challenge for a while.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,800
- Points
- 728
I build kits. What are the challenges of scratch building. Quality of wood? Skill with power tools? Research? Are Seawatch's books worth the investment?
as far as model building skills go, there is no difference between scratch and kit building. sometimes building a kit requires more skill because a kit is not built like a real ship.
Quality of wood? depends on the manufacture of the kit some use Basswood and other common available woods. There are pros and cons to using wood such as Basswood is so much easier to use than a hard and dense wood such a Pearwood or boxwood. Some exotic woods just look nicer. But a scratch or semi-scratch you pick and choose what you want to use which is a big advantage.
Skill with power tools? most of my model building i am using hand tools or hobby tools like a Dremel tool. If you do not have the tools to cut down lumber into usable size scale lumber there are a few businesses out there that will custom mill wood to order. Scratch building does not mean you have to grow the tree, harvest it, dry it and cut it into scale lumber. just purchase the scale timbering you will need for the project
Research? builders relate research to the history of a ship but research is also researching and understanding "how" a ship is built and how are you going to apply this to a scale model? kits do not use actual ship building methods they supply instructions on how to assemble the parts in the box.
Are Seawatch's books worth the investment? yes and no depends on what you are looking for. As far as getting how to information this forum as everything you need to know and if you cannot find it just ask.
go here and follow along
as far as model building skills go, there is no difference between scratch and kit building. sometimes building a kit requires more skill because a kit is not built like a real ship.
Quality of wood? depends on the manufacture of the kit some use Basswood and other common available woods. There are pros and cons to using wood such as Basswood is so much easier to use than a hard and dense wood such a Pearwood or boxwood. Some exotic woods just look nicer. But a scratch or semi-scratch you pick and choose what you want to use which is a big advantage.
Skill with power tools? most of my model building i am using hand tools or hobby tools like a Dremel tool. If you do not have the tools to cut down lumber into usable size scale lumber there are a few businesses out there that will custom mill wood to order. Scratch building does not mean you have to grow the tree, harvest it, dry it and cut it into scale lumber. just purchase the scale timbering you will need for the project
Research? builders relate research to the history of a ship but research is also researching and understanding "how" a ship is built and how are you going to apply this to a scale model? kits do not use actual ship building methods they supply instructions on how to assemble the parts in the box.
Are Seawatch's books worth the investment? yes and no depends on what you are looking for. As far as getting how to information this forum as everything you need to know and if you cannot find it just ask.
go here and follow along
School for model ship building
having finished the Alfred stern, i have the stern of the Hancock prepped up as the next project. After thinking about it i decided to do something different. I titled this school for model ship building because that is how i am going to create this next project. Starting with plans i will take...
shipsofscale.com
Working from plans vs directions. I have little to no expertise there...
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,800
- Points
- 728
Working from plans vs directions. I have little to no expertise there...
go look at the build log of the Royal James link below this is scratch building from a set of "modeling plans" Taking a set of hull lines, creating a set of modeling plans and then build the model is a totally different thing and a little more advanced than using premade modeling plans.
using modeling plans does limit your choices of subjects. But if you do find a subject and there are no modeling plans just post the subject here and members here will take you through the process step by step
go look at the build log of the Royal James link below this is scratch building from a set of "modeling plans" Taking a set of hull lines, creating a set of modeling plans and then build the model is a totally different thing and a little more advanced than using premade modeling plans.
using modeling plans does limit your choices of subjects. But if you do find a subject and there are no modeling plans just post the subject here and members here will take you through the process step by step
Will do. Maybe this 74 year-old can learn something new.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2024
- Messages
- 818
- Points
- 298
One additional thought. Building a model from scratch means that you don’t have to build models that the model kit industry wants you to build; Victory, Constitution, etc. You can branch out and build something unique. Lots of American regional watercraft are overlooked. For example Chesapeake Bay watercraft can make attractive models. My first scratch built model was the Bugeye Lizzie J. Cox.
If this appeals to you I can help with research ideas.
Roger
If this appeals to you I can help with research ideas.
Roger
I'v always wanterd to create a riverboat like those use by the Union army iduring the war, some converted some 'scratch' built.
Kurt Konrath
Kurt Konrath
Scratch building is like learning a new job tasking or going from a standard to an automatic transmission.
It takes the same and also new skills, the woodworking skill are much the same, the learning what and why things are built a certain way as Dave has said is the new and sometimes hard thing to deal with.
I have started, but not completed my first scratch build project they they had here in the forum, I stopped because the job and moving got in the way and I couldn't get to my power tools, but it was fun, and I intend to finish to learn the basic skills.
You can think of scratch building as just making your own kit, then assembling the parts, even though there may be 10 times the number of parts.
Maybe build one of the great Plank on Frame kits to learn how real ships are built, then use available plans to design your own ship.
It takes the same and also new skills, the woodworking skill are much the same, the learning what and why things are built a certain way as Dave has said is the new and sometimes hard thing to deal with.
I have started, but not completed my first scratch build project they they had here in the forum, I stopped because the job and moving got in the way and I couldn't get to my power tools, but it was fun, and I intend to finish to learn the basic skills.
You can think of scratch building as just making your own kit, then assembling the parts, even though there may be 10 times the number of parts.
Maybe build one of the great Plank on Frame kits to learn how real ships are built, then use available plans to design your own ship.
I, too, relocated-this January to South Carolina. Still finding my way around.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,800
- Points
- 728
when the term "scratch built" comes up people automatically think plank on frame construction but that is not the case you can scratch build a solid hull or a plank on bulkhead hull
I'v always wanted to create a riverboat like those use by the Union army during the war, some converted some 'scratch' built.
tell us more about these vessels, do you have a picture of one? people here can get you started with the ground work.
I'v always wanted to create a riverboat like those use by the Union army during the war, some converted some 'scratch' built.
tell us more about these vessels, do you have a picture of one? people here can get you started with the ground work.
You must obey She Who Is in Charge and wants all sanding done outside, whether scratch or kit.
Exactly! That's the most important reason for scratch building. And I share Roger's enthusiasm for regional types. There are many books and plans available but the foundational references on American watercraft are books by Howard Chapelle, such as:
- American Small Sailing Craft
- The History of American Sailing Ships
- The American Sailing Navy
- The Search for Speed Under Sail
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2024
- Messages
- 818
- Points
- 298
All excellent books, and most of the 100’s if not 1000’s of drawings that illustrate the books can be ordered from the Smithsonian Institute.
Roger
Roger
In my opinion, the biggest challenge for any aspiring scratch builder who has no hands-on full-scale experience in building boats and sailing them, is learning how the prototype vessel is built and how it is operated. Time and again, technically accomplished kit builders (and manufacturers!) will make glaring errors that betray their lack of experience with their subject matter. Many aren't even fluent in maritime nomenclature. If you want to build from scratch, you need to know how to "write" your own plans and instructions and then translate them, engineering-wise, to scale. Building a small-scale model of a ship is less expensive and less labor intensive, but it still takes as much knowledge and skill as the full-sized vessel does.
To anybody who wants to start building from scratch, I would urge them to teach themselves how to build a full-sized boat first, then learn to translate the full-scale plans to small-scale models. All of this information is in books, many of them in print for many decades (and therefore inexpensive on the used book market.) The "oldies but goodies" have stood the test of time because they haven't been surpassed.
For the basics of full-sized boatbuilding, which includes how to produce and read lines drawings (they are actually a pictorial technical language,) and basic construction techniques ("scantlings," etc.,)
1. Boatbuilding, A Complete Handbook of Wooden Boat Construction, by Howard I. Chapelle
(Available free online: https://archive.org/details/boatbuildingcomp00chap) or https://www.amazon.com/Boat-Building-Howard-Irving-Chapelle/dp/0393031136. New current edition $70. Used earlier editions $30. Used newer editions $50. Earlier editions are fine.
2. Yacht Designing and Planning, by Howard I Chapelle
https://www.amazon.com/Yacht-Designing-Planning-Howard-Chapelle/dp/0393332594. Available new in paperback $35. Available used hardcover from $8.50.
For the basics of scratch-building:
3. Plank-On-Frame Models and Scale Masting and Rigging, Vol. 1: Scale Hull Construction by Harold A. Underhill
https://www.amazon.com/Plank-Frame-Models-Masting-Rigging/dp/085174186X. New $74. Used from about $10 and up.
4. Plank-on-Frame Models and Scale Masting and Rigging, Vol. 2 by Harold A. Underhill
https://www.amazon.com/Plank-Frame-Models-Masting-Rigging/dp/0851741746/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3L1OL0N9BZYJR&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.jriv3EOptv2ypRlvB1hdD0A_z6aJquJdzuOUwEuWT9oNkWGCh9WE5iO7hRC2gHtUkMRrBxGPnxZj-P-ZXmM-7K0SmowcCGameisW_TOIIK-Ol1T_4C0CeboDaehhmluYg5qMv_S7UELivGZ_9wupMQ.CPzxqhKssoT3yxnEjZR-Uiy_h371jCH2TmSxSokqjrA&dib_tag=se&keywords=plank+on+frame+vol.+2+underhill&qid=1747707941&s=digital-text&sprefix=plank+on+frame+vol.+2+underhill,digital-text,140&sr=1-1. Used from around $25.
(3. and 4. above also often sold as a set for around $50: https://www.amazon.com/Plank-Frame-Models-Masting-Rigging/dp/B000KF4ATC/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3L1OL0N9BZYJR&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.jriv3EOptv2ypRlvB1hdD0A_z6aJquJdzuOUwEuWT9oNkWGCh9WE5iO7hRC2gHtUkMRrBxGPnxZj-P-ZXmM-7K0SmowcCGameisW_TOIIK-Ol1T_4C0CeboDaehhmluYg5qMv_S7UELivGZ_9wupMQ.CPzxqhKssoT3yxnEjZR-Uiy_h371jCH2TmSxSokqjrA&dib_tag=se&keywords=plank+on+frame+vol.+2+underhill&qid=1747707941&s=digital-text&sprefix=plank+on+frame+vol.+2+underhill,digital-text,140&sr=1-2
5. Ship Models: How to Build Them, by Charles G. Davis
https://www.amazon.com/Ship-Models-Build-Dover-Woodworking/dp/0486251705#:~:text=Complete, step-by-step instructions for building schooners, galleons, clipper,materials to final task of painting the model. Available in paperback or used hardcover. Used paperback from $6.
6. The Ship Model Builder's Assistant, by Charles G. Davis
https://www.amazon.com/Ship-Model-B...86-ad5b-d39e987eac41&pd_rd_i=0486255840&psc=1. Available in paperback or used hardcover. Used paperback from $20.
As your focus narrows on a particular vessel type and/or historical period, you'll find no end of excellent (and not) books to add to your modeling reference library, but, in my over 50 years of collecting books on ships and the sea and modeling them in particular, these are the seminal reference works I find myself going back to time and again to refresh my memory or learn something new. Learn what's in them as you go along and you'll have no problem building any vessel you can find plans for, and even many that you can only find partial plans for, or for which you've drawn plans of your own!
To anybody who wants to start building from scratch, I would urge them to teach themselves how to build a full-sized boat first, then learn to translate the full-scale plans to small-scale models. All of this information is in books, many of them in print for many decades (and therefore inexpensive on the used book market.) The "oldies but goodies" have stood the test of time because they haven't been surpassed.
For the basics of full-sized boatbuilding, which includes how to produce and read lines drawings (they are actually a pictorial technical language,) and basic construction techniques ("scantlings," etc.,)
1. Boatbuilding, A Complete Handbook of Wooden Boat Construction, by Howard I. Chapelle
(Available free online: https://archive.org/details/boatbuildingcomp00chap) or https://www.amazon.com/Boat-Building-Howard-Irving-Chapelle/dp/0393031136. New current edition $70. Used earlier editions $30. Used newer editions $50. Earlier editions are fine.
2. Yacht Designing and Planning, by Howard I Chapelle
https://www.amazon.com/Yacht-Designing-Planning-Howard-Chapelle/dp/0393332594. Available new in paperback $35. Available used hardcover from $8.50.
For the basics of scratch-building:
3. Plank-On-Frame Models and Scale Masting and Rigging, Vol. 1: Scale Hull Construction by Harold A. Underhill
https://www.amazon.com/Plank-Frame-Models-Masting-Rigging/dp/085174186X. New $74. Used from about $10 and up.
4. Plank-on-Frame Models and Scale Masting and Rigging, Vol. 2 by Harold A. Underhill
https://www.amazon.com/Plank-Frame-Models-Masting-Rigging/dp/0851741746/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3L1OL0N9BZYJR&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.jriv3EOptv2ypRlvB1hdD0A_z6aJquJdzuOUwEuWT9oNkWGCh9WE5iO7hRC2gHtUkMRrBxGPnxZj-P-ZXmM-7K0SmowcCGameisW_TOIIK-Ol1T_4C0CeboDaehhmluYg5qMv_S7UELivGZ_9wupMQ.CPzxqhKssoT3yxnEjZR-Uiy_h371jCH2TmSxSokqjrA&dib_tag=se&keywords=plank+on+frame+vol.+2+underhill&qid=1747707941&s=digital-text&sprefix=plank+on+frame+vol.+2+underhill,digital-text,140&sr=1-1. Used from around $25.
(3. and 4. above also often sold as a set for around $50: https://www.amazon.com/Plank-Frame-Models-Masting-Rigging/dp/B000KF4ATC/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3L1OL0N9BZYJR&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.jriv3EOptv2ypRlvB1hdD0A_z6aJquJdzuOUwEuWT9oNkWGCh9WE5iO7hRC2gHtUkMRrBxGPnxZj-P-ZXmM-7K0SmowcCGameisW_TOIIK-Ol1T_4C0CeboDaehhmluYg5qMv_S7UELivGZ_9wupMQ.CPzxqhKssoT3yxnEjZR-Uiy_h371jCH2TmSxSokqjrA&dib_tag=se&keywords=plank+on+frame+vol.+2+underhill&qid=1747707941&s=digital-text&sprefix=plank+on+frame+vol.+2+underhill,digital-text,140&sr=1-2
5. Ship Models: How to Build Them, by Charles G. Davis
https://www.amazon.com/Ship-Models-Build-Dover-Woodworking/dp/0486251705#:~:text=Complete, step-by-step instructions for building schooners, galleons, clipper,materials to final task of painting the model. Available in paperback or used hardcover. Used paperback from $6.
6. The Ship Model Builder's Assistant, by Charles G. Davis
https://www.amazon.com/Ship-Model-B...86-ad5b-d39e987eac41&pd_rd_i=0486255840&psc=1. Available in paperback or used hardcover. Used paperback from $20.
As your focus narrows on a particular vessel type and/or historical period, you'll find no end of excellent (and not) books to add to your modeling reference library, but, in my over 50 years of collecting books on ships and the sea and modeling them in particular, these are the seminal reference works I find myself going back to time and again to refresh my memory or learn something new. Learn what's in them as you go along and you'll have no problem building any vessel you can find plans for, and even many that you can only find partial plans for, or for which you've drawn plans of your own!