LA BELLE-POULE in 1771

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franzoesische-Fregatte-La-Belle-Poule-1765-196-uebersetzt_3304.jpgLA BELLE-POULE is an well known old Shipyard kit scaled to 1/96 of this classic French 12-pounder frigat BELLE POULE 1765 showing in her appearance from 1771 on.

The modelkit get's 460mm long and does fit to my desk very well. Yesterday night I found the First time to dir in the Kirchen me and my wife listening to some Audiobook listening; she in research Journey for a new carpet to the Floor and me dealing with the ironclad PREVENEZ of 1864 and as her Work did gobvery Well Mine entered the Stage of a nightmare as the middle section didn't fit the bow end after parts. I decided Not to document this Horror by Pictures and thrown away the LCset. My weekend's tests on the cladding of the removal boxes sides with the copies of the lines plan of SAINT PHILIPPE 1693 went into a disaster, too. As the paper got like waves the cardboard of the boxes isn't good for the lateral parts If you want to get a decent result to half of the millimeter. So I wasn't happy at all.

My attempts on the boats of SIXTUS V. went also in some wrong directions I couldn't Deal with as my "tiny workshop" in the children's room is now temporarely the safe residence of my twenty year old so'n living with us till some week. So my Level of frustration was high and I looked around for something challaging - not to end in a desaster as the tiny Russian iron cladin 1:200 with it's wrongly constructed skeleton and weak cardboard selected for the laser cutting.

So due to these two and a half downfalls I was highly frustrated and went to my cardboard model stash - and found LA BELLE-POULE as a compromise between the new "mobile model shipyard" and my ambishions to build every day half an hour to two hours to get something I could declare to some kind of real modelbuilding progress not feaking my self by an undercomplex model.

So I decided to take the plastic box with Ancre Monography, laser cut frames set and the kit's handbook to the kitchen starting to cut out the frames...
IMG_20210906_214734.jpg
...and arranging them for you....

IMG_20210906_215224.jpg

...so it gives you some impression how tiny These pices are cut.


My wife was first time in our relationship really interested in the shape of the frames even before plugt them together. As a graphic Designer she knows a plenty about paper, Card board and it's abilitys and weakesses - so I did find a real Well informed consultant in my admirality...

I do hope the GPM Laser cut set fits hopefully much better into each other and in material's quality than the catastrophe I had before with a Orel kit I did bin this night.
Certainly the figure head of the Lion isn't in the kit the very same

la-belle-poule-fregate-1765 (3).jpg
as in a wooden model twice it's size.

So I do plan the fregat in an other way - in 1/96 so I can add a plenty of details from the monography by J. Bodriout published by Ancre/Nice a book I have got in my shelf.

la-belle-poule-fregate-1765.jpg
Here from the Ancre website the marvellous model gives

la-belle-poule-fregate-1765 (5).jpga plenty of details to me.

la-belle-poule-fregate-1765 (2).jpg
And so I can now start her as a build to get a classical hull model -

IMG_20210906_231820.jpg
with mast stumps and stairs leading downwards gratings and hopefully a good helmsman's wheel.

IMG_38511.jpg
The used material will not purely paper and card - it must be mixed from card, wood and plastic to get an optimal result. It is a pitty but I cannot affort anything else.

So I suddenly became again a fregat modeller as I thought 10 years ago by buying the RENOMMÉE monography to start with an eight pounder fregat. Now the circle ended as I found the kit of BELLE POULE in her appearance between 1771-1799 and so I do look into the monography to get more details out of the kit.

IMG_20210907_060640.jpg
Dealing with the drawings in the monography means dealing in 1/108 due to a card model kit in 1/96 - so it feels quite similar.

My point of view is the question how the hull modell will look like
IMG_20210906_231820.jpg
(I forgot to photograph the CenterLine backbone pice of the LCset).

Polish_20210907_070333251.jpg
- what openings I can show open at all

Polish_20210907_070315894.jpg
and how to arrange this on the kit's given structure.

So I have to think If these ideas of changes are being realistic to be incorporated onto/into this kit.

And what I realized from yesterday night is the sceptical view onto the laser cut frames that were critical for the hole project.
Polish_20210907_070425045.jpg
So I may open the hatch to the officers' accomodation on the quarter deck so there is a View into the darkness of the hull possible. The Bank seems to be a later added Item.

When "Walking" over the deck
IMG_20210907_060650.jpg

I so realized some trouble source there and looked at several Models of BELLE-POULE in the web.

IMG_20210907_060653.jpg
So the guns are Not really easy to recoginze - I May put one extra beside the hull or I may keep away the boats to give an easier optical access to the guns of the main battery as only in this place they are fully exposed to the eye of the spectator. And due to this at this stage of planing the hole question of "If I should show her with guns or without?" - was decided for me before I could even ask her! :-D

IMG_20210907_060657.jpg
Otherwise only the smaller only six pounder gunnery in the quarter deck

IMG_20210907_072829.jpg
is in the center of intrest. This would givd a completly wrong impressionen of the ships force and firepower - so the view into the hull and onto the Main twelve pounder battery is an essential Feature of the model - perhaps I should enlarge this by removeing one of the gratings, too?


One great detail I felt in love to is the anchor storage and
la-belle-poule-fregate-1765 (4).jpg
the pure size of the item itself realizing how big it is
Polish_20210907_070543878.jpg
compared to a figure so I do think about a scale figure somewhere beside, in or viewable in the model...

So let's getting started!

P.S. is it usual to add the anchor to a hullmodel with it's complete rigging? I do ask as the shrouds are missing and I do have got No Idea how to handle this - or are the anchors to be neglected at all and the cable, too?

What are the classical rules for ancors on hull models?
la-belle-poule-fregate-1765 (4).jpg
 
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Congratulations on choosing a model.And I have an idea in my head to make it in a tree.Only by increasing the patterns in 72 scale, by analogy with my model Slava Ekaterina.
 

Uwek

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A detailed review of the shown planset / monograph by Jean Boudriot and Hubert Berti, as well as some more photos of the amazing model built by Berhard Frölich you can find here in SOS:

 
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The monogarphy is at hand,Uwe and I do work with the prints of the plans.

Mr Deep, the main problem will be the scale I have to damit die to my Bad eyesight but I will have to work my way through it and after this think about the next step - so I can change the scale up to 1/64 to get a bigger model - for this I so only have to enlarge

IMG_20210907_060752.jpg
the drawings of the inner structure by simply 150% :cool: so this will be the easiest part the plan set has to be reduced to 75% of it's original size this will be quite expensive...
 
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Everything really looks seriously fine for the First step...

IMG_20210907_222107.jpg
...but then it does begin to start...
IMG_20210907_222354.jpg

untill you do start to put the LCparts together and having a closer look...

IMG_20210907_231459.jpg
Than you realize sadly, that the holes for the masts' aren't placed right and the parts do not fit to each other without massiv misalignment to each other or the holes for the masts do mismatch...
IMG_20210907_231847.jpg
Only the mizzen mast seams to be rightly placed and in a workable position.

Defenetly no snuggly fitting pice of model basic structure here - it seams a lot of guess work and adjusting will come to me.
I found the parts hardly in the overcrowded instructions and I am highly frustrated by this Kit I payed nearly 50 bugs for at ebay as everything seems to be in the kit... But the official pictures by GPM only do show the very underside of the hull - but never not a single picture the upside!

So what is to do here!?
 
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I found an interesting link to the subject in a Polish forum:


And I do compare on this evening the LC-parts with the printed parts in the kit `s sheets so I will find the error hopefully.

IMG_20210907_060653.jpg
The very long quarterdeck in the Kit ist interrupted - so I do think about using the beautiful monographie's copy as a colourable prototype or drawing a new one.

And I have to go to the copyshop to get a doubicate of the kit as then I can cut out the door's decorational pannels and giving the bulkheads some more Details by structure and inked shadows.
 
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Are there any information about sisterships available as the decorational parts are only twodimensional...

Polish_20210908_200821435.jpg

This would give some more freedom to me in detailling and colouring?
 
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In "The History of the French fregat 1650-1850" I found some information that looks quite helpfull.

There are three sisterships all built at Bordeaux in1766 to the very same measurements:
Polish_20210908_225502627.jpg
Dédaigneuse
Impérieuse
Tourterelle

were the three ships named.

I do look for their decorational elements for to make some changes that will give a bit of freedom to me. Otherwise I can take These Elements known from other contemporary ships and try to become the hull one of these three by carefully altering the decor to something "newish" cladded to the transom in particular.

Hopefully I am able to figure something out one of the Sisters or sadly some other source from in between 1760 to 1770 for this alterations.
 
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Uwek

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Hallo Chris,
I do not understand now your research related to the decoration of any sisterships.
You have a relative detailed information in your Monograph of the Belle Poule made by Jean Boudriot.

and these information are also confirmed by the british shipwrights which made this contemporary drawing after her capture, showing also the stern decoration as well as the figurehead. This plan is also mentioned by Boudriot.

j6627.jpg
Scale 1:48. A plan showing the body plan, stern board outine with decorations and name in a cartouche on the stern counter, sheer lines with inboard detail and figurehead, longitudinal half-breadth for Belle Poule (1780), a captured French Frigate as taken off at Portsmouth Dockyard, prior to fitting as a 36-gun, Fifth Rate Frigate. Signed by George White [Master Shipwright, Portsmouth Dockyard, 1779-1793].


Why do you not use this information and search for sisterships?
 

Uwek

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BTW:
The other three sisterships were not captured, but broken up or wrecked.

Unbenannt.JPG


So it will be hard to find any drawings outside of France - the only way will be to contact the museum in Bordeaux, and search for existing french contemporary drawings.
 

Uwek

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....the only way will be to contact the museum in Bordeaux, and search for existing french contemporary drawings.
according my catalogue there is one contemporary drawing in the archives in Rochefort existing

Unbenannt.JPG
 
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BTW:
The other three sisterships were not captured, but broken up or wrecked.

View attachment 255197


So it will be hard to find any drawings outside of France - the only way will be to contact the museum in Bordeaux, and search for existing french contemporary drawings.
Thanks a lot, Uwe, I did write to the backoffice of Ancre publishing in Nice (as they may have some further information from the preparation of the monography) and to the Bordeaux's Museum for naval affairs and to the Rochefort's Museum (as your finding-code told me) the decorational plans may be stored there, perchange.

So we will have to wait and me doing my work on the hull - as my evening yesterday wasn't successfull.

Thank you very much and some Humor for all of us:Polish_20210909_131618651.jpg
 
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The feedback I got yesterday evening was that these early LC sets without consulting and licensing with for example Shipyard we're manufactured and marketed by GPM. Then it turned out how bad the quality really was and that no time was invested in developing or checking the quality. Since Shipyard and other publishers have now banned this approach, GPM has locked itself in the market as a hedgehog and is apparently not interested in how much the other manufacturers' models suffer from the poor image of the LC sheet that the reputation contributes. Therefore, the shipyard has actually forbidden GPM, among other things, to designate this LC set as "for model XY" ...

So at the weekend I have to dismantle the frame set and compare it with the building sheet to see which parts actually I have to recreate and what can be left with it as it is.

Paper is made of wood
and wood works slowly -
so be patient ...
 
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Uwe, I do look arround for sisterships as this gave me a bit of freedom to decide what else ist possible to be done - so I can change in details. I have got the monograpie's book, too. And did find intersting informations in there - but I am still translating French through my Latin (abl.instr.) knowledge.
 

Uwek

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The Belle Poule booklet is also available in english language, which can be ordered separately
Unbenannt.JPG

 

Uwek

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View attachment 254634LA BELLE-POULE is an well known old Shipyard kit scaled to 1/96 of this classic French 12-pounder frigat BELLE POULE 1765 showing in her appearance from 1771 on.

The modelkit get's 460mm long and does fit to my desk very well. Yesterday night I found the First time to dir in the Kirchen me and my wife listening to some Audiobook listening; she in research Journey for a new carpet to the Floor and me dealing with the ironclad PREVENEZ of 1864 and as her Work did gobvery Well Mine entered the Stage of a nightmare as the middle section didn't fit the bow end after parts. I decided Not to document this Horror by Pictures and thrown away the LCset. My weekend's tests on the cladding of the removal boxes sides with the copies of the lines plan of SAINT PHILIPPE 1693 went into a disaster, too. As the paper got like waves the cardboard of the boxes isn't good for the lateral parts If you want to get a decent result to half of the millimeter. So I wasn't happy at all.

My attempts on the boats of SIXTUS V. went also in some wrong directions I couldn't Deal with as my "tiny workshop" in the children's room is now temporarely the safe residence of my twenty year old so'n living with us till some week. So my Level of frustration was high and I looked around for something challaging - not to end in a desaster as the tiny Russian iron cladin 1:200 with it's wrongly constructed skeleton and weak cardboard selected for the laser cutting.

So due to these two and a half downfalls I was highly frustrated and went to my cardboard model stash - and found LA BELLE-POULE as a compromise between the new "mobile model shipyard" and my ambishions to build every day half an hour to two hours to get something I could declare to some kind of real modelbuilding progress not feaking my self by an undercomplex model.

So I decided to take the plastic box with Ancre Monography, laser cut frames set and the kit's handbook to the kitchen starting to cut out the frames...
View attachment 254632
...and arranging them for you....

View attachment 254633

...so it gives you some impression how tiny These pices are cut.


My wife was first time in our relationship really interested in the shape of the frames even before plugt them together. As a graphic Designer she knows a plenty about paper, Card board and it's abilitys and weakesses - so I did find a real Well informed consultant in my admirality...

I do hope the GPM Laser cut set fits hopefully much better into each other and in material's quality than the catastrophe I had before with a Orel kit I did bin this night.
Certainly the figure head of the Lion isn't in the kit the very same

View attachment 254638
as in a wooden model twice it's size.

So I do plan the fregat in an other way - in 1/96 so I can add a plenty of details from the monography by J. Bodriout published by Ancre/Nice a book I have got in my shelf.

View attachment 254635
Here from the Ancre website the marvellous model gives

View attachment 254637a plenty of details to me.

View attachment 254636
And so I can now start her as a build to get a classical hull model -

View attachment 254641
with mast stumps and stairs leading downwards gratings and hopefully a good helmsman's wheel.

View attachment 254640
The used material will not purely paper and card - it must be mixed from card, wood and plastic to get an optimal result. It is a pitty but I cannot affort anything else.

So I suddenly became again a fregat modeller as I thought 10 years ago by buying the RENOMMÉE monography to start with an eight pounder fregat. Now the circle ended as I found the kit of BELLE POULE in her appearance between 1771-1799 and so I do look into the monography to get more details out of the kit.

View attachment 254649
Dealing with the drawings in the monography means dealing in 1/108 due to a card model kit in 1/96 - so it feels quite similar.

My point of view is the question how the hull modell will look like
View attachment 254641
(I forgot to photograph the CenterLine backbone pice of the LCset).

View attachment 254644
- what openings I can show open at all

View attachment 254645
and how to arrange this on the kit's given structure.

So I have to think If these ideas of changes are being realistic to be incorporated onto/into this kit.

And what I realized from yesterday night is the sceptical view onto the laser cut frames that were critical for the hole project.
View attachment 254643
So I may open the hatch to the officers' accomodation on the quarter deck so there is a View into the darkness of the hull possible. The Bank seems to be a later added Item.

When "Walking" over the deck
View attachment 254646

I so realized some trouble source there and looked at several Models of BELLE-POULE in the web.

View attachment 254647
So the guns are Not really easy to recoginze - I May put one extra beside the hull or I may keep away the boats to give an easier optical access to the guns of the main battery as only in this place they are fully exposed to the eye of the spectator. And due to this at this stage of planing the hole question of "If I should show her with guns or without?" - was decided for me before I could even ask her! :-D

View attachment 254648
Otherwise only the smaller only six pounder gunnery in the quarter deck

View attachment 254652
is in the center of intrest. This would givd a completly wrong impressionen of the ships force and firepower - so the view into the hull and onto the Main twelve pounder battery is an essential Feature of the model - perhaps I should enlarge this by removeing one of the gratings, too?


One great detail I felt in love to is the anchor storage and
View attachment 254639
the pure size of the item itself realizing how big it is
View attachment 254642
compared to a figure so I do think about a scale figure somewhere beside, in or viewable in the model...

So let's getting started!

P.S. is it usual to add the anchor to a hullmodel with it's complete rigging? I do ask as the shrouds are missing and I do have got No Idea how to handle this - or are the anchors to be neglected at all and the cable, too?

What are the classical rules for ancors on hull models?
View attachment 254639
Hallo Heinrich alias @Iterum
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY
Birthday-Cake
How is the status of your Belle Poule?
Are you still working on her, or do you have another project?
 
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