Life before AutoCad

Peglegreg

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G'day all
AtuoCad is not the only programme that has reduce labour.
Photoshop, Quark Express and latter Adobe Indesign are prime examples of mass reductions in employment. I was in the Graphic Arts Industry for 40 years, we went from cut and past on a drawing board to Apple Macintosh in no time.
Only the quick and lucky survived. I was fortunate enough to be one of them.
Before computers, an art room might had 30 artist and after the digital revolution it went to 5 or 6 and the same amount of production was produced.
Then the collapse of the pre-
press, where there were 40 plus doing film work and after the revolution again it came down to about 2.
Progress!
I wonder.
Good topic Zoly.
Havagoodone mate
Greg.
 

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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yup Greg I to was one of the last old timers standing in the pre-press department only because I went on to learn the computer. In my final years in the Graphic Arts I worked as a lithographic stripper on a big glass light table, which has nothing to do with stripping anything. Once imaging went digital direct to plate the strippers were gone.

is it progress? I think so
 
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Peglegreg

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G'day Jeff
Progress cost jobs, but on the other hand it brought down cost in the Industry.
I remember going to a promotion at Compugraphics about 30 years ago, where on arrival, they took my photo and my information etc. I went to the bar for a drink and when I returned to my pre ordered seat, there was a personalized 16 page booklet about what was on offer. Every page either had my photo, my name, position in the company that I was representing or how it can help me, as part of the manuscript. It took only 10 minutes.
I was blown away!
HAVAGOODAY
Greg
 
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zoly99sask

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G'day Jeff
Progress cost jobs, but on the other hand it braught down cost in the Industry.
I remember going to a promotion at Compugraphics where on arrival, they took my photo and my information etc. I went to the bar for a drink and when u returned to my pre ordered seat, there was a personalized 16 page booklet about what was on offer. Every page either had my photo, my name, position in the company that I was representing or how it can help me as part of the manuscript. It took only 10 minutes.
I was blown away!
HAVAGOODAY
Greg
Who is Jeff?
 

Peglegreg

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G'day Jeff
Progress cost jobs, but on the other hand it brought down cost in the Industry.
I remember going to a promotion at Compugraphics about 30 years ago, where on arrival, they took my photo and my information etc. I went to the bar for a drink and when I returned to my pre ordered seat, there was a personalized 16 page booklet about what was on offer. Every page either had my photo, my name, position in the company that I was representing or how it can help me, as part of the manuscript. It took only 10 minutes.
I was blown away!
HAVAGOODAY
Greg
Oops sorry Dave, I thought your name was Jeff. Thanks to Zoly for correcting me.
Havagooday all
Greg
 

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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Progress cost jobs, but on the other hand it brought down cost in the Industry.


it created jobs and almost instant point of contact for people like Bob desk top publishing opened an entire new industry and he can publish his work custom made for merchant ship modeling.

I learned photo retouching and l layout for web presses and all types of printing presses. die-cutting cad design now it morphed into 3-D printing and 3D graphics all this changed the modeling industry. I learned on a Scitex computer image system with an analog laser drum scanner
The printing industry spilled over into web design, desk top publishing


I remember going to a promotion at Compugraphics about 30 years ago, where on arrival, they took my photo and my information etc. I went to the bar for a drink and when I returned to my pre ordered seat, there was a personalized 16 page booklet about what was on offer. Every page either had my photo, my name, position in the company that I was representing or how it can help me, as part of the manuscript. It took only 10 minutes.
I was blown away!


ya me to what can be done in this hobby alone will fill your sails and blow you away, progress refines and replaces and creates new jobs
 

Peglegreg

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what can be done in this hobby alone will fill your sails and blow you away, progress refines and replaces and creates
You are right again Dave. My kit that I'm building now is outstanding. It's the ZHL's 1:30 HMY Royal Caroline. The boxwood carvings are extremely intricate. They were all produced by CNC.
The lazer cut parts are so accurate it's would be impossible to do this quality with out computers.
The ship's boat in this kit (this is what I'm working on now) has lazer cut clinker planks and the accuracy and different shapes for each plank is mind blowing as well.
So the jobs that was taken away be progress, found a new home, that was made by progress.
I never thought of it that way.
Happyprigressivefuture
Greg
 

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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in this hobby and many others including model engineering the advancements are far ahead of the industry. For many hobbyists the technology hit them like a blot of lighting. People in the trades commercial art, graphic arts drafting etc kind of were there in the beginning and advanced along with the computer technologies. My training began in art school and learning drafting on a table with a T square with pen and ink. Photo retouching was done with an air brush then photoshop, layout a page was done with cutout text and layout on a key line board with rubber cement then to Page maker.
For people in the industry it was the same process just different set of tools. Today there are still hobby guys who draw plans by hand with a pencil because they have to start from scratch and learn the programs.
Right now the speed bump in 3D printing is not the technology of the actual printing it is learning the software and creating a "print file" that will actually print.

the time line B.C. before computers A.C. after computers
 

donfarr

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As you know Dave you and I have been talking about this for Quite some time, even though I do not understand any of it, I can visulize what it can acomplish in this hobby, MAKES IT UNDERSTANABLE, AND A BETTER BUILD, and faster also, yes it is progress from my perspective, especially the intermediate modeler. Don
 

trippwj

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There is, of course, a different view. I started with traditional drafting in the 7th grade, learned typesetting and linotype in the 8th grade. Started with photography (including dark room work) in the 8th grade as well. I also started with computers back when it was card punch, eventually getting one of the early generation TRS-80 computers. I have worked with main frame for statistical analysis and word processing, learned networking using token ring. Not averse to learning programs and such in the least. I still, however, get a certain satisfaction from putting pencil to paper. I still write my rough drafts of documents using a No. 2 yellow pencil on lined pads of paper. I then, of course, transcribe it into the computer. I think better when writing by hand.

I also enjoy putting pencil to paper for drafting work. Yes, it is far less "precise". I get that. It is, however, the way the original plans were created. A common gripe for those creating electronic versions of old plans is that the lines seem "off". Well, given that the original creator was lifting every dimension from the hand drawn scale on the drawing (the accuracy of which became a crucial source of error throughout the process), and likewise using a variety of methods (frequently arcs of fixed radius) to create the curves, then flexible battens to create others. Modern CAD programs lack some of that ability to create unique curves using splines and such, and are so highly accurate that each line is exactly where the dimension says it should be. One of the reasons that the activity in the mould loft was so important was to find those quirks of hand drafting at 1:48 scale, correct them and smooth the lines and shapes for the builder.

I have no interest in creating parts using 3D printing - at least not right now! Nothing against it, but not for me. Tools such as 3D printing, the CDC and the laser cutter are fantastic and, indeed, great for mass production work. To me, the time to create that shape for a cutting (or printing) file for only one item seems a waste. I can do a lot of sanding in the time it takes to accomplish that. Nothing against those moving into the techno gizmo side of things - Enjoy! Don't denigrate the luddite using older techniques and methods, though. The past frequently has a way of resurging and becoming the present (note the recent surge in the sales of old fashion scythes for farming as but one example...)
 

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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back in the early days of the trades it was get with the new ways or good bye so that is why I learned CAD drafting and things like photoshop and illustrator and all the drawing software. There was a time when the want ad said draftsman needed and when you apply they sat you down in front of a computer running Autocad and they say OK show us what you know.
if I said oh no I do it all by hand I got a weird look and really! no sorry and they show you the door real fast.

I fully embraced the techno gizmo side of things to survive back in the day or become obsolete and out dated become a relic of the past or move on
 

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I can always get a groan out of draftsmen of a certain age if I make a joke about how all those lettering classes paid off... I picked up a complete Leroy lettering set at a yard sale and still think it will come in handy. For something. Sometime. But it is pretty fun to use and gives good results. Here is a good short video:
 

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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there are 2 different views on hand drawing with pen and ink and what goes on in the commercial field where time is money and the artistic aspect is kicked to the curb.

I understand what Wayne is saying I had the opportunity to sit and look at original pen and ink ship drawings and each and everyone is a work of art. If you ever done that kind of work you get a deep appreciation of the art form.

here are the original hand drawn pen and ink drawings of master builder Harold Hahn. Not only are they the original that his plans were based on but they are a Hahn original. He started with tissue paper and later used Mylar.

just not the same as a jpeg file or a copy when you have the original look close to the edges and there are scribbles where he was testing the pen before he started drawing.


018.jpg

001.jpg

046.jpg

confed s.jpg

oliver cromwell_edited-1.jpg

original drawing.jpg
 

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I would not waste my money and time with CAD. I can build model ships using very faded and blackened plans. If I want clearer plans, I can always draw them myself using pen and paper. Pretty poor quality when compared with CAD productions, but they look good to me. It takes me about a week to draw a plan, although this one only took about three days, because it is not very complicated. To me, the doing of the work myself is of far more importance than perfection. That is why I do not use CAD, or build kits! The half-built model is the tea clipper Norman Court - Bob
Rigging a miniature tea clipper with wire.JPGEvelyn.jpg
 

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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I would not waste my money and time with CAD. I can build model ships using very faded and blackened plans. If I want clearer plans, I can always draw them myself using pen and paper.

you make a valid point it would take you a 1,000 hours to become good at CAD and the cost of the software. A total waste of time and money for you.

it all depends on what you are doing, what you want to end up with and the applications you intend on using the drawings for. I for one can use my CAD files and convert them to 3D print files, CNC cutting files, laser cutting files, I can rescale to any size, and change anything at a click of a mouse, I can send my files anywhere in the world via on line.

it also depends on the complexity of the build my latest project requires the drawing of all the steam engine parts and making sure each and every parts fits exactly to one another, drawing 89 frames, The model is 7 feet long far to big for a paper drawing, some parts need to be machined or 3D printed so exact files are needed.

so yes for you a waste of time for me essential for the build at hand
 

shipbuilder

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Very true, but I am talking about it as connected to the hobby model shipbuilding, not precision engineering on a professional scale. As over 80% of ship modellers only build kits, they will have no need for CAD either, as all the planning and much else has been taken care of by the kit manufacturers.
 

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

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in the world of the hobby of model ship building and I was asked should I or do I need to learn CAD I would say NO and asked why?

because you are going bird hunting with 32 pounder cannon.
 
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