ligurian Tartane LA GEMMA becoming SIXTUS V. in 1/64

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Hello Friends,

as I realized that my plans often are not detailled enough for a beginner's scratch project I figured out that it needs to be a modelling project with two components a pushing and a pulling one. So I looked for pictures coming Close to my heart -

received_353879409687276.jpeg
and got it.

A project I find my challanges within and avoiding the slings of overestimating my skills, tools and eyes. So I run into a bit of literature for this night searching my book shelf up&down- some of the plans we're too beautyfull but often underdetailleled, some too challanging by too much of detail or a much too big ship. Then I rememberered a thread in here and I do think I cought a compromise between the ammount of details given to me by the plan and the intersting finding of solutions I so need to build those in the shipyard. As I realized at my whaler AGATE 1854 the number of details to be definied by myself was too big.

So I concentrated on my Ancre plansets (avoiding the J.C.Lemineur plans) and staying away from temptational beauty beasts like RENOMMEE 1744 or VENUS 1782.
So I did came to merchant ships like the brigatine-schooner SCUNA 1903 who's rigging looked too challenging. At the very end the Ligurian Tartarne GEMMA 1863-1885 by Franco Fissore published in 2009 came to my hands as more and more books went back from the pile into the the shelf. I also so remember some advises of Wolfram zu Mondfeld about the Variation of tartarnes in his books and a row of drawings with älteres rigg, hull and colouring sheme - inventing the modelbuilders to be creative in a given reliable set of plans.

Polish_20210808_003221013.jpg
I looked for a picture af Ligurian Tartarne I liked and found this.
So I do have to work with

IMG_20210807_231539.jpg
IMG_20210807_231555.jpg
IMG_20210807_231623.jpg
IMG_20210807_231651.jpg
very good and

IMG_20210807_231719.jpg
IMG_20210807_231752.jpg

sufficently detailled plans and our colleauge @Javier Baron was able to bring her alive in a much smaller scale of 1/150 Something my Bad left eye couldn't catch.

The plans are originally scaled in 1/36 so I do need to scale the drawings down to 1/64 by copying it to 56% so you do will get a 484,84mm long model. And so my 1/64 scaling may be usefull as 1/36 as a scale looks too room eating and detail forcing to me. Also imagening these drawings being a bit more than half this size seems quite resionable.
IMG_20210807_231831.jpg
So here a first view in the basic drawings without all the increasing detaillings needed to get a nice model.
IMG_20210807_231719.jpg
IMG_20210807_231726.jpg
So I do hope you will like my research and brainwork on the project. And I do hope for Javier's helping comments - so I do not run into some trouble with these planset already known by him.

So let's start with some care.
 
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Uwek

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Hello Friends,

as I realized that my plans often are not detailled enough for a beginner's scratch project I figured out that it needs to be a modelling project with two components a pushing and a pulling one. So I looked for pictures coming Close to my heart -

View attachment 248690
and got it.

A project I find my challanges within and avoiding the slings of overestimating my skills, tools and eyes. So I run into a bit of literature for this night searching my book shelf up&down- some of the plans we're too beautyfull but often underdetailleled, some too challanging by too much of detail or a much too big ship. Then I rememberered a thread in here and I do think I cought a compromise between the ammount of details given to me by the plan and the intersting finding of solutions I so need to build those in the shipyard. As I realized at my whaler AGATE the number of details to be definied by myself was too big.

So I concentrated on my Ancre plansets (avoiding the J.C.Lemineur plans) and staying away from temptational beauty beasts like RENOMMEE 1744 or VENUS 1782.
So I did came to cival ships Like the brigatine-schooner SCUNA 1903 euch rigging looked too challenging. At the very end the Ligurian Tartarne GEMMA 1863-1885 by Franco Fissore published in 2009 came to my hands as more and more books went back from the pile into the the shelf.

View attachment 248693
I looked for a picture af Ligurian Tartarne I liked and found this.
So I do have to work with

View attachment 248682
View attachment 248683
View attachment 248684
View attachment 248685
very good and

View attachment 248686
View attachment 248688

sufficently detailled plans and our colleauge @Javier Baron was able to bring her alive in a much smaller scale of 1/150 Something my Bad left eye couldn't catch.

The plans are originally scaled in 1/36 so I do need to scale the drawings down to 1/64 by copying it to 56% so you do will get a 484,84mm long model. And so my 1/64 scaling may be usefull as 1/36 as a scale looks too room eating and detail forcing to me. Also imagening these drawings being a bit more than half this size seems quite resionable.
View attachment 248689
So here a first view in the basic drawings without all the increasing detaillings needed to get a nice model.
View attachment 248686
View attachment 248687
So I do hope you will like my research and brainwork on the project. And I do hope for Javier's helping comments - so I do not run into some trouble with these planset already known by him.

So let's start with some care.
You have with the tartane Gemma a very interesting project in mind.
For everybody interested in the planset, just take a look also at the planset review we have here in our forum

 
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Thanks a lot, Uwe!!! The planset was reviewed this Körnung by ne and I figured out intersting findings:
IMG_20210808_114742.jpg
The only negative finding was this much overcrowded staircase down to the accomodationson Plate N° 8 compared to "Sgn.de Scala" there is the impression of Double the stairs than being needed - or is this an Special Features I so Not know about as I do translate the monogaphie's Text from French through (Abl. instr.) Latin to German...

IMG_20210808_114947.jpg
The typical Error in Pumps doesn't appear to be there - it fits ergonomically.


Also the Cut into tohe bow Sectio is very well done and does give precise information about the planking.
IMG_20210808_115047.jpg

But Most astonishing IS the double featured lines plan:

IMG_20210808_115321.jpg

Giving the bulkheads in two seperaten drawings so nothing is overcrowded and badly to been cut out of you do build you PoB built. So the PoF guys got their frames drawn seperatly in Plate N° 2, 3 and 4

IMG_20210808_115341.jpg
and the other so do can deal

IMG_20210808_115346.jpg
work with N@°1 very precise and in a confortably manner - even in a small scale like me.

IMG_20210808_115627.jpg
The plan N° 17 does give some serious information to me as drawn in 1/48 very nice. And die to this it is 125% of my scale of 1/64 so the ruler may give some good idea to you about the size of the coming model.
 
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But the real luxuriousest part of the plan set ist now to come:

Polish_20210808_123538554.jpg

two fully detailled plan Platzes (N° 16 ans 17) about the boat. And they do make me think about a changing of the scale up to 1/48 or going upwards a bit with 1/32...

IMG_20210808_122308.jpg
I added my Meer drawing treeangle tool to it (as the mms are easier to recognize) and you do not only simply
IMG_20210808_122323.jpg
get the frames - you do get the moulds with grooves also delivered, too!!!

IMG_20210808_122345.jpg
I turned the pictures upside down to show them in vito.

IMG_20210808_122541.jpg
Also the tools, bits, odds, oars, yards and pices are shown for the boat - it is a model of it's own right!

IMG_20210808_122410.jpg
So did I find to the scale my gamechanger?
I am unshure to build the boat in a bit more than half (56%) this size in wood - plastic may be my option - I am quite far away from the boat as one of the last items to be build but it is influencing my decission to the scale very much recently.

So I hope you do enjoy this little journey through this lovely monography as I do.

I would like to get some feedback to the scale theme.


Polish_20210808_130555423.jpg
And as I do think about some minor simplifying changes to make the model easier by building it as a Papal Tartarne in their classical yellow white colouring so I may build her a bit "freelancy" and call her "SIXTUS V." (1585-90) after the POpe bringing big new building activity and wealth by the transportstion in this the PApal states -
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with a Lion in his Cote of Arms and WE all know the astonishing obelisk on the SAINT PEter's place.

images (30).jpeg
Here some are some nice contemporary ideas for the ornamentation surrounding the figure head and the Name plate also.

So what do you think about a dated back Tartarne so the amount of metal parts is smaller and the horizontal windlass ("guindeau") is completly wooden.

IMG_20210808_125100.jpg
As here shown in the contemporary model in the monography of the three masted galiot FRIEDRICH WILHELM DER 2TE (Hinstorff 1990) built in 1789 and

IMG_20210808_125428.jpg
and I personally do love this type installed on a Dutch Smak with it's cigar-shaped spill shown in "Smakken, Kuffen und Galioten" by Horst Menzel (Kabel/Deutsches Schiffahrtsmuseum 1997).
So I by using these only wooden construction with metallic hoops (as in barrels) I may can reduce the "problematic areas*" a bit. So I would Date the SIXTUS V. Back to 1800 before the French monster not to be named attacked the holy states of the POpe.

I know there is some drawing in the Tartarne du Roy DELEGENTE by Ancre about the windlass but I didn't have it at hand for more ideas. But the basic ideas are all from merchand ships an resionable to find in the other Side of the mounts alles, too - hopefully.

IMG_20210808_122308.jpg
So are Here with US any colleauges giving me some advoce to my sprinkling ideas - Wolfram zu Mondfeld argued and motivated His Trades in the Encyklopedia as His handbook to Play with some variations in the Tartarne in particular as the varitity of ships we're very rich and so I think with some specialist's help his idea may marture to something buildable. So pleace step in with your comments and ideas, knowledge and questions.

Thank you very much!

*This is why ships are Always named femal ;-)
 

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Here a collection of older Tartarnes with much simpler rigg I found as an inspiration in the web in a fast first search while in my way in tube to work.vand did find beautyfull artwork of nice quality.
Francois_Roux_Tartane_fragment.jpg
One caught my intrest due to the minimal decoration on the side gallery and the open railing aft.
Serres_Tartane.jpg
"Looks not too bad...''
The very rest of the line ist more of intrest due to the shape of two sail rig and the curveature of the stem and bow sprit:
Tartana ligure.jpgTartanone -bastimento di trasporto.jpg
A second foresail and aft mast is added for a better maneuvrebility. Also some straight side galery like here above.
Tartana.jpg

This drawings we're from the Tartarne du Roy DELIGINTE Monography:

1280px-Jean_Jouve,_pl.16,_Tartane_1.jpg1280px-Jean_Jouve,_pl.17,_Tartane_3.jpg
This does look Like the Same tartane under sail and in habour.

1280px-Jean_Jouve,_pl.19,_Tartane_5.jpg
Here an intersting row of small ordonance is shown.And a bar between Mast and transom I couldn't identify what IT IS used for... Some kind of sun protection sail?


Quite a round bow is shown here:

post-17801-0-11189300-1487435262.jpg
Here an intersting second mast in the back and the boat towed behind - all these small guns - a specified war tartane or a well armed merchant?
d8ffe9a11f515ad42389d45cdbab7885.jpg
And the seamen do work in the rigging but the helmsmann stood quite freely.
1280px-Jean_Jouve,_pl.15,_Tartane_1.jpg
So there are a lot of variations possible to be added to the ship.
 
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So Here we are Back from the Copyshop! the first step will be something miniaturistic -the boat's boat...

Loa 106,2mms/4,18" Lpp 73mms/2,87"IMG_20210809_203706.jpg
The lines plan is irritating flimpsy
IMG_20210809_203750.jpg
But the isometric drawings are besutyfully done and the Cut throught thebmain frame shows how fragile the hole construction is to be build.
Even the inner floor plankingsdo Look great.
IMG_20210809_203951.jpg
Here the keel and frames - very delicate to build... Also the moulds for the frames are given with all it's grooves:
IMG_20210809_203921.jpgIMG_20210809_204146.jpg
The sails for those who try to add them...IMG_20210809_204128.jpg
IMG_20210809_204012.jpg
 
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So Yesterday night I calculated a bit
IMG_20210809_204146.jpg

and figured out my frames have to be 0,5mm (.156") thick. And the moulds so have an rought thickness of 2,2mm (8/10").

IMG_20210809_204227.jpg
But I will have to do it now as my eyesight get's worse. So I added a moment of inner rebuild and started a special tool collection geathering all my small devices in one box. So next I will have to figure out where the 0,5mm sheets we're in my removal boxes
 
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IMG_20210809_204227.jpgAll these parts are so flimpsy I do think away from using any King of wood by turning towards using Evergreen cards of 0,5mms or .156" for the frames
IMG_20210809_204146.jpg

and roughly estimated 2,5mms or 1" of superglue hardened & waxed balsa wood for the moulds. Any practical grown suggestions towards this idea?

IMG_20210809_204159.jpg
For the masts' and rigg I am completly out of ideas as I have No ideas how to use metal without soldering or a lathe here.
 

Uwek

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I am looking forward to see how you will execute these small elements...... this will be a challenge :cool:
 
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All in all we are in the
some 10th mms region and I have to look how far I can Go with the detailling :-/

Tonight's Task finding the Box with the parts I so need for this project in particular these 0,5×0,5mms rods and 0,5mms sheets I did bought drin Evergreen.

IMG_20210809_204128.jpg
I am just asing my self about beveling, sanding, planning, this fragile structure even in the mould...

Also it is unclear how to imitaite all the neccerserry wood grain for the belonged realistic look.
Let's have a look on the real thing.
 
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I.
My Tartane SIXTUS V. does absolutely need some adjustments to come away from the

IMG_20210807_231651.jpg
164 years younger GEMMA plan it is officially derivated from.
Tartanone -bastimento di trasporto.jpg
So the bow and stem in particular does need alterations

post-17801-0-11189300-1487435262.jpg
and must get a little bit shorter and an idea of a less clipper-like appearance.

Tartana.jpg
So I do work on this task in the next days while on my way towords and from work.


II.
The Cote of Arms of POpe Sixtus the V.

tumblr_p2z54fS3oK1sntw5yo1_1280.jpg
is bearing a golden lion looking to the right with a Fleur-de-Lys in his left claw. Standing infront of a blue ground and with a Red ribbon in front of him.

1163671c8abe0bcf7dac3390ca0d9093.jpg
The ribbon is holding two items: a six ended star and a three topped montain.

images (30).jpeg
The surrounding cartoushe may variate but for a figurehead it does look ideal.

So let's getting started.
 
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Yes, Uwe, but I try to harden the keel with superglue, to be safer

IMG_20210811_131620.jpg
due to the small size of 68mms in length.

IMG_20210811_131804.jpg
And with a thickness of only 1mm to 1,7mms in hight IT Looks critical.
IMG_20210811_124545.jpg
The Plans do get a little bit of progress as public transport in Berlin is half in protest's stoppings today...
 

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Uwek

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One question:
Why do you start with the most fragile part of the ship, means with the smallest parts on the boat?
Me personally think, that working on the main ship would produce soma skill and experience in this scale and would jump later on on the boat.
But it seems, that you need the challenge, or?
 
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Due to a leck of equipment as my Proxxon table saw and disk sander are not available so I can Work small parts by Hand.
And, Uwe, most important my eye sight is rappidly falling from bad to worse.
 
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Dealing with my windlass in the back to Alter the Tartane
IMG_20210813_081217.jpg
- is there any need for my complex construction or is it simply straight upwards to the mast's top blocks?

IMG_20210813_081255.jpg
So here the rest of the windlass' hold between the stancions of the bulkwalk.
IMG_20210813_082440.jpg
So I am affraid of "meeting" of the rope with the hatch's Corner - and so I do think about an "idler" to keep it away from rubbing over the wooden edge.

IMG_20210813_081247.jpg
So I thought about Alterung the hight....

But do SIXTUS V. really does need this turning block post for avoiding the Rope to "meet" the hatch side? Is the hole construction not an overengenieered circumstancing add on???

I looked through the books of Horst Menzel and did not find any similar construction...
...perchange it is a Mythenmetz'sche Abschweifung - a Work around tale of my beloved692039.jpg

So what do the Experte so say - should I just changing the windlass' with out any and and keeing the rope's hight of leaving the wooden drum as my most important reference point?
 
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Uwek

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I think, that the windlass of the Gemma was mainly used only for the anchor chain.
monographie-de-la-gemma-tartane-ligure-1863 (1).jpg

and maybe you did not take into account, that the drawing you are using is the longitudinal section in the center line of the vessel
The hatch cover has an inclined roof (with a height in the center (red) and a lower height at the outer edge (green)
monographie-de-la-gemma-tartane-ligure-1863 (6).jpg

IMG_20210813_081217.jpg
 
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Ahhhh you're right Uwe, so there is much less of trouble.
Till Wat time I would do the change from rope to chain at the anchor windlass?

Thinking about everything in this 400mms between rudder

IMG_20210813_125140.jpg
and figurehead doodeling at a changed stem but without success at the moment...
Working on scetches in my breaktime in office to become relaxed - and it does work...
 
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Due to your pictures, Uwe, a question enlighted my mind by the way is there any source telling
IMG_20210813_130458.jpg
To us about a binnacle near the helman's station or we're these boats navigated by daylight and die to land marks only?? Or May there to be a rest added for a small binnacle? (Haven't got the booklet with me - perchange it may be a stupid question.)
 
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Very nice! She's quite similar my current build of the leudo Santa Lucia which was started many moons ago. The hull has been completed but not without problems and errors. I see your scuppers are perfectly shaped semi circles. I gave up trying and only made a dozen on each side six short of the plans. I couldn't get a correct consistent shape with my small curved file. I was thinking of using a proper size drill bit and then filling in the lower half with putty. However, I am afraid of the damage I may cause to the deck. Any hints are appreciatedleudo.jpeg
 
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