Making Cannon

[Artilleryman]

A little job ( in terms of size )
Panzerdraisine : Liliput L136506 or 507 .... Vierling flak : Preiser 16582 (without carriage and without shields )

 

[AllanKP69]

I am not sure if the carriages used in 1695 would be the same as those used circa 1665, but lacking evidence based on contemporary sources to the contrary I am planning to use 1665 design for Litchfield (50) 1695. It is based on the carriage recovered from the HMS London but will be sized for smaller guns than the 24 pounder carriage below.

The drawing by Richard Endsor is based on the carriage from the London.

Carriage for 24 pounder

Another concern is the hardware. The ring that would be for the breeching is very low and seems like the breech rope would get tangled with the forward trucks during recoil. With the real carriage available for study I do not doubt the drawing, but it seems odd to me. Also, there are two rings at the rear of the carriage instead of a single eyebolt. Even when there was one train tackle, I can only find a single eyebolt, no rings. If anyone has additional drawings or information for guns and carriage of the second half of the 17th century I would love to learn more.

TIA
Allan

 

[Signet]

View attachment 548957 Another concern is the hardware. The ring that would be for the breeching is very low and seems like the breech rope would get tangled with the forward trucks during recoil.

I agree. Plus I would think that with the recoil being retained so low, there would be quite the tendency for the barrel to lift up, along with the the front wheels. If it lifted quickly during the recoil cycle, the barrel might even hit the top of the gunport before retracting far enough. Hard to know, but yes, it's usual.

 

[AllanKP69]

Thanks Signet.
Allan

 

[AllanKP69]

Spanish naval guns., I had a Spanish barrel printed based on contemporary drawings, but I cannot find anything on the carriages, circa 1765. The past hour of searching has turned up two photos from the Museo do Marine in Madrid, but I am not sure if either one is correct. If anyone has good drawings of carriages from the mid 18th century I would be grateful if you could post them.
TIA
Allan
Printed barrel in 1:30 and 1"64

Photos from museum in Madrid

 

[Jeffrey Modell]

Is anyone (possibly else besides Alan) making Spanish Gribaveaul cannon (12-, 8-, 4-pounders) barrels in1:64? I need them for the square-rigged jabeque Murciano (1779).

 

[Jeffrey Modell]

Spanish naval guns., I had a Spanish barrel printed based on contemporary drawings, but I cannot find anything on the carriages, circa 1765. The past hour of searching has turned up two photos from the Museo do Marine in Madrid, but I am not sure if either one is correct. If anyone has good drawings of carriages from the mid 18th century I would be grateful if you could post them.
TIA
Allan
Printed barrel in 1:30 and 1"64
View attachment 549100
Photos from museum in Madrid
View attachment 549098View attachment 549099

I cannot read any dates on this but I was searching for 18th century back when I found it all. I am away from my library for a few weeks but I do have a book on Spanish ordinance that I can check.

 

[Jeffrey Modell]

Spanish naval guns., I had a Spanish barrel printed based on contemporary drawings, but I cannot find anything on the carriages, circa 1765. The past hour of searching has turned up two photos from the Museo do Marine in Madrid, but I am not sure if either one is correct. If anyone has good drawings of carriages from the mid 18th century I would be grateful if you could post them.
TIA
Allan
Printed barrel in 1:30 and 1"64
View attachment 549100
Photos from museum in Madrid
View attachment 549098View attachment 549099

Could not figure out how to delete my post. Carriages in later post today.

 

[Jeffrey Modell]

Excellent point Uwe.
I did a little digging after Anatoly's post and wondered if the British kept her armament as launched, re-armed her with Armstrong Fredericks or the newer Blomefield. So far I have found that there is scant information on US frigate armaments compared to what can be found on other navies. RMG has drawings of three different ships named President, one being a French capture. The only thing I could find there on the US frigate is a half hull model. https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66564 and a cross section drawing https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-81696
Sorry to say the Sergal kit appears to be someone's fantasy as it looks nothing like the French ship captured in 1806, the US ship President 1800 (captured in1815). or the British President 1829
Allan

Can't speak for the rest, but I pondered this issue as well with respect to the razee Indefatigable and found no info. My gut feel is the British were so stretched that if a gun could be kept to save money, it would be kept.

 

[Kevin the Lubber]

Just something on the health and safety front. When resin printing barrels (or any tube) with a closed end, you need to take care that there isn't wet, uncured resin still in the barrel of the finished part. The smaller the barrel, the more likely it is that there'll be uncured resin deep inside and it's surprising how short the tube can be with this still occurring. Closed tubes act as a suction cup and hang on to wet resin on the print lift stroke.

I design & print gun barrels as a two part assembly i.e. an open tube barrel with a separate breech. I also make the tube wall fairly thin, to maximise the opportunity for resin to drain. The flare helps - I print with the muzzle facing the plate, using short supports to keep the aperture clear of the plate.

 

[kuba91nt]

Hello everyone. I need your opinion.
Do you think 36-pounder guns from the 1780-1805 period on Spanish ships could have been undecorated?

I don't question description of small caliber guns, because they could have been decorated, 24pdr was definitely decorated, but what about the cast iron 36pdr?
Do you think that the set i have prepared could be used on a ship of the line as Santa Ana 1784-1805?

In line - 4, 8, 12, 16, 24, 36 long, 36 short.


According to the description I found:
If the 36-pounder guns were cast iron, then, in accordance with standard practice of the era, their barrels were generally not ornately decorated. Cast iron is less easily rendered with expressive detail, and given the weight of the barrels and the need to produce large numbers of guns, decorative additions were usually deemed unnecessary. In practice, this meant a smooth, unadorned barrel with minimal markings – perhaps the royal monogram, the casting number, the date of manufacture, or the name of the foundry.
This fits with the growing trend towards utilitarian simplicity in the 18th century: large naval artillery was intended to be effective and mass-produced, not representative.

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/e/evolution-of-naval-weapons.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Considering that even the coastal artillery is not decorated, could the 36pdr ship guns not have been either?
Thank you and best regards.
Kuba

 

[AllanKP69]

The only other thing I could find that seems to be factual is in the following article. It states that the cipher was engraved for the most part. Thank you for the link that you posted, I have saved it for future reference.
Allan

Spanish Bronze Cannon

Spanish Bronze Cannon

www.ministryforheritage.gi

 

[-Waldemar-]

Hello everyone. I need your opinion.

Hi Kuba,

I'm sorry to say this, but since you asked, I have to tell you that the set you're showing is clearly unsuitable for a ship already at first glance. These barrels must have been modelled on field artillery guns. Apart from the general profile and other details, the very presence of handles, known as dolphins, indicates that these are land-based models cast in bronze.

Ships at that period only used cast iron guns, effectively deprived of any decorations (and handles ), designed in so-called systems from this or that year, covering all calibres, for exclusive use of the fleet. I'd be happy to send you some materials, but it would be good if you could clarify your needs. For example, are you looking for a 36-pound long gun or a 36-pound naval howitzer? All guns of particular system or just 36-pdr gun? Just barrels? Etc.

 

[kuba91nt]

Hi Kuba,

I'm sorry to say this, but since you asked, I have to tell you that the set you're showing is clearly unsuitable for a ship already at first glance. These barrels must have been modelled on field artillery guns. Apart from the general profile and other details, the very presence of handles, known as dolphins, indicates that these are land-based models cast in bronze.

Ships at that period only used cast iron guns, effectively deprived of any decorations (and handles ), designed in so-called systems from this or that year, covering all calibres, for exclusive use of the fleet. I'd be happy to send you some materials, but it would be good if you could clarify your needs. For example, are you looking for a 36-pound long gun or a 36-pound naval howitzer? All guns of particular system or just 36-pdr gun? Just barrels? Etc.

Yes, I know Waldemar, thanks for the reply.
This is a random set of cannons from 1714, it's hard to determine their purpose.
I'm looking for information on how to most closely complete the set of cannons for the Santa Ana model for 1784-1805 from Artesania Latina.
I haven't decided yet whether the model will be in the form it came from the shipyard or armed for Trafalgar 1805.
The barrels in the kit are neither well-scaled nor look accurate. I don't intend to use the half-barrels from the kit; all decks will be fully replicated.
I'm looking for information on how to safely and reasonably accurately replace the 36-pounder from the kit, they're missing now, and there's a toothpick attachment (100).

 

[-Waldemar-]

I'm looking for information on how to safely and reasonably accurately replace the 36-pounder from the kit, they're missing now, and there's a toothpick attachment (100).

Fine, whatever you decide, just throw a grenade in my direction and I'll get you the right stuff.

From what I can see in your photo, it looks to me like it's the barrel of a 36-pounder long gun. So, for now, here is a drawing of this cannon barrel from the Spanish 1783 system (Spanish archives):

​

 

[AllanKP69]

the very presence of handles, known as dolphins, indicates that these are land-based models cast in bronze.

The only thing I could find was that dolphins were predominantly on bronze cannon, they were known to be on some iron cannon. This was a general AI search so skepticism is a good thing for us to have with their responses. Trust but verify. (doveryai, no proveryai)

 

[AllanKP69]

Spanish 1783 system (Spanish archives):

Can you post their website?
THANK YOU
Allan

 

[-Waldemar-]

The only thing I could find was that dolphins were predominantly on bronze cannon, they were known to be on some iron cannon.

Actually, this can be considered quite accurate information, as there were indeed cast iron cannons sporting handles, but they were so rare (and mostly found in earlier eras) that this can be considered just an exception that proves the rule.

 

[kuba91nt]

The only thing I could find was that dolphins were predominantly on bronze cannon, they were known to be on some iron cannon. This was a general AI search so skepticism is a good thing for us to have with their responses. Trust but verify. (doveryai, no proveryai)

You're right. I have no problem distinguishing French guns, but I don't have any confirmed information about Spanish barrels. I could also put anything in there. The model is very interesting and detailed; I wouldn't want to make it look like crap. I'd like to add some detail to it.

Fine, whatever you decide, just throw a grenade in my direction and I'll get you the right stuff.

From what I can see in your photo, it looks to me like it's the barrel of a 36-pounder long gun. So, for now, here is a drawing of this cannon barrel from the Spanish 1783 system (Spanish archives):

View attachment 561596​

I'll adjust accordingly, thank you.
Do you think i should leave the low-caliber guns undecorated and only include a 24-gun as the main decor gun?
Do you perhaps have a 16pdr or 24-gun from this period?

 

[-Waldemar-]

Can you post their website?

Here you go. Link to the archive. Straight to the graphic section of the archive resources. You can search by keywords such as ‘cañones’ or other artillery terms.

CCBAE Catálogo Colectivo de la Red de Bibliotecas de los Archivos Estatales

El Catálogo Colectivo de la Red de Bibliotecas de los Archivos Estatales y del CIDA (REBAE) reúne las descripciones bibliográficas de los fondos de las bibliotecas especializadas de los Archivos Estatales y del Centro de Información Documental de Archivos (CIDA), todos ellos dependientes de la...

www.mcu.es

Good luck