Beautiful build Gary. I agree with Donnie, the color combinations, wood and paint, really make this ship stand out
Mantua Sergal's Le Soleil Royal
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Thanks. The bottom is MS4803 Hull Tallow. The other colors are as close to the colors of the actual ship as I can guess. The blue background was designed to accentuate the gold. The middle section will be a light yellow.
Beautiful work Gary, those guns and ornaments really bring your ship to life 
Thanks. The instructions say to put the onamentation on last just before starting the rigging. This doesn't make since because everything has to line up and be fitted so that the white wood will just touch the ornamentation on the side. In the back there is to be 3 levels of extended decks with walls and the inside pieces has to fit. If you just sand of the flash, the parts would not fit and would be really hard to install behind the walls. Even though this is a high advance kit and has little instructions, you have to see how it goes together and ignore the kit steps. For example, the cannons on the main deck that go under the decks are suppose to be installed and rigged after the deck that covers them is completed. Just try and rig something that is 3 1/2 inches under the deck.
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CharlesEdward
Guest
concur Gary, The Royal Sun is on my wish list and I can hardly wait to get it, maybe in seven years or so. Sergal is one of the hardest instructions to comprehend if you don't read Italian. The HMS Sharke, my first kit, was Sergal, not a real easy build but I did finish it. My great-grandmother and grandmother spoke Italian with me until I was about ten years old, but it fell out of memory for non-use after they passed away and it took a bit of work to get the words back into the old head and then just barely.
Everyone, thanks for looking in.
Sjors: I agree, but the instructions are needed since that is where a lot of the measurements for the materials is include. A lot of their plans are angled perspectives so you can not get the measurements of the materials to use from them.
John: You were lucky you were able to get the ship completed since Mantua's plans usually have several errors and inconsistancies in them. At the stage you were in building at the time, I am sure it was a real challenge.
Mantua's "La Soleil Royal" will make a beautiful ship, but it is very inaccurate and the design does not allow for much corrections to be made. I will discuss this when I post my next pictures in a day or so.
Sjors: I agree, but the instructions are needed since that is where a lot of the measurements for the materials is include. A lot of their plans are angled perspectives so you can not get the measurements of the materials to use from them.
John: You were lucky you were able to get the ship completed since Mantua's plans usually have several errors and inconsistancies in them. At the stage you were in building at the time, I am sure it was a real challenge.
Mantua's "La Soleil Royal" will make a beautiful ship, but it is very inaccurate and the design does not allow for much corrections to be made. I will discuss this when I post my next pictures in a day or so.
I have a few new pictures with the top part of the stern gallery decorations on.
However, it is time to discuss this version of the "Le Soleil Royal".
I could only find two reliable sources of this ship. One is the unfinished model in Paris and the other is Heller's plastic version which I built in 1995. Heller has a few things that do not match the Paris model, but they are minor. However, the Mantua version has several gross errors.
I have mentioned some of the challenges. The cannons were a real chore. The plans of the model have an incorrect number of cannon ports and gross spacing. They do not follow a straight line and rise at an angle of about 8 percent in both directions from the center cannon forming flattened v. To get the distances between the cannons to be consistent, I had to be re-positioned most of them. Thus, I had to jury rig most of them as best I could. However, if you only do 14 cannons on each row, I think their version makes more sense. The others versions have a cannon shooting over the stern gallery wall and the bottom row had a port coming through the decoration area. Since the amount of gold and carving on ships in this area showed how powerful the king was, it does not seem likely the king would commission a vessel with ports in this area that could not have adjustments made without shooting out the gold or through the railing.
Several decorations do not agree with the other two references. Some are reasonable simplifications, but some others add to the ship. All of the ornamentation that goes on the inside walls of the stern gallery are omitted. I am not a good artist and my carving skills are not up to carving the intricate detail required to replace them. Even my stick figures do not come out straight.
Their plans have several inconsistencies and you have to determine which dimensions are correct. Some parts shown on one drawing are left off on others. I looked at the other two versions to determine which was probably correct.
When I went through a divorce, I lived in a single wide trailer for over 7 years and there was no room to build models until I bought my home. Because of this, my skill has waned a little and I have made a few extra minor errors. The advantage of this complicated ship is that there will be so much to look at that nobody will probably ever notice most of them.
I discussed the instructions previously and will not reiterate it here. Suffice it to say that this is a thinking person ship and you have to plan ahead and visualize what it will look like in 3 dimensions. Several of the parts that were batched produce do not fit correctly due to the changing heights of all the curves and angles required on the ship. Also, because of the design, there is a limit to the amount of kit bashing I can do.
Even though this version has several things that are probably wrong in outward appearances, I know it will make a beautiful ship.
However, even if I made a perfect model of this version, the alterations designed in this kit means that she should never be put in a museum. I am thinking that kit design has even hull errors which I am checking out and intend to discuss later if I find out they are wrong.
However, it is time to discuss this version of the "Le Soleil Royal".
I could only find two reliable sources of this ship. One is the unfinished model in Paris and the other is Heller's plastic version which I built in 1995. Heller has a few things that do not match the Paris model, but they are minor. However, the Mantua version has several gross errors.
I have mentioned some of the challenges. The cannons were a real chore. The plans of the model have an incorrect number of cannon ports and gross spacing. They do not follow a straight line and rise at an angle of about 8 percent in both directions from the center cannon forming flattened v. To get the distances between the cannons to be consistent, I had to be re-positioned most of them. Thus, I had to jury rig most of them as best I could. However, if you only do 14 cannons on each row, I think their version makes more sense. The others versions have a cannon shooting over the stern gallery wall and the bottom row had a port coming through the decoration area. Since the amount of gold and carving on ships in this area showed how powerful the king was, it does not seem likely the king would commission a vessel with ports in this area that could not have adjustments made without shooting out the gold or through the railing.
Several decorations do not agree with the other two references. Some are reasonable simplifications, but some others add to the ship. All of the ornamentation that goes on the inside walls of the stern gallery are omitted. I am not a good artist and my carving skills are not up to carving the intricate detail required to replace them. Even my stick figures do not come out straight.
Their plans have several inconsistencies and you have to determine which dimensions are correct. Some parts shown on one drawing are left off on others. I looked at the other two versions to determine which was probably correct.
When I went through a divorce, I lived in a single wide trailer for over 7 years and there was no room to build models until I bought my home. Because of this, my skill has waned a little and I have made a few extra minor errors. The advantage of this complicated ship is that there will be so much to look at that nobody will probably ever notice most of them.
I discussed the instructions previously and will not reiterate it here. Suffice it to say that this is a thinking person ship and you have to plan ahead and visualize what it will look like in 3 dimensions. Several of the parts that were batched produce do not fit correctly due to the changing heights of all the curves and angles required on the ship. Also, because of the design, there is a limit to the amount of kit bashing I can do.
Even though this version has several things that are probably wrong in outward appearances, I know it will make a beautiful ship.
However, even if I made a perfect model of this version, the alterations designed in this kit means that she should never be put in a museum. I am thinking that kit design has even hull errors which I am checking out and intend to discuss later if I find out they are wrong.
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CharlesEdward
Guest
Still looking very good Gary, but your insights about the kit limitations will prove to be a good guide for me when I get this kit in the future. Although, when I do finally purchase this kit, it will probably be a tad different. Mantua / Panart / Sergal kits are well known for their metal ornamentation being a little off, probably due to that they have not updated the molds for any of their pieces for two decades or more. They might listen to some of the world-wide complaints that I have seen posted everywhere and eventually update their molds somewhat. Who can say?
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CharlesEdward
Guest
Excellent work Gary, I will definitely keep tabs on this one.
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CharlesEdward
Guest
Maybe I am wrong but that upswept deck seems very typical of those large frigates and high decked galleons, or at least it seems that way to me whenever I look closely at any of those types of models. Not being an naval engineer couldn't say if it follows the curvature of the hull structure which can be very pronounced at the stern quarter.
Thanks everyone for all your comments. Your kind comments and your own successes help keep us all going.
This is a ship that would benefit greatly from a larger scale. It would looked better and would have been easier to correct any problems. At 1:60 she would have been 52 inhes which is about the size of Mantua's Amerigo Vespuccia and Titanic. Their Wasa, President, Bounty, Peregrine Galley, Endeavour and Dutch Whaler is 1:60 scale. However, the Soverign of the Sea at 1:60 would be 56 1/3 inches which is bigger than any of their models, so I can see them not doing that one. However, why 1:78. If they we doing it for the American market, 1:72 seems right or for metric markets 1:70 seems right which would make it 48 1/4 inches long. Their Cutty Sark and H.M.S. Victory are 1:78. So why is this ship with all the different angles and fancy decorations the only 1:77 scale model they make? Just venting, not really asking.
It is still an amazing build and their are some nice design ideas in the model. Thanks goodness this company does the real elaborate decorative ships because my artist skills would never even get close to being able to scratch build this beautiful vessel from a by gone era that was truly unique.
This is a ship that would benefit greatly from a larger scale. It would looked better and would have been easier to correct any problems. At 1:60 she would have been 52 inhes which is about the size of Mantua's Amerigo Vespuccia and Titanic. Their Wasa, President, Bounty, Peregrine Galley, Endeavour and Dutch Whaler is 1:60 scale. However, the Soverign of the Sea at 1:60 would be 56 1/3 inches which is bigger than any of their models, so I can see them not doing that one. However, why 1:78. If they we doing it for the American market, 1:72 seems right or for metric markets 1:70 seems right which would make it 48 1/4 inches long. Their Cutty Sark and H.M.S. Victory are 1:78. So why is this ship with all the different angles and fancy decorations the only 1:77 scale model they make? Just venting, not really asking.
It is still an amazing build and their are some nice design ideas in the model. Thanks goodness this company does the real elaborate decorative ships because my artist skills would never even get close to being able to scratch build this beautiful vessel from a by gone era that was truly unique.
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CharlesEdward
Guest
So very true, I have trouble understanding why they pick some of these really odd scales but a 52 inch model is HUGE. The Montanes, when finished, will be around 49 inches long, 35 inches high and 18 1/2 inches wide and that is listed at a 1:70 scale. Per the official dimensions on the kits themselves, Montanes will be my largest size yet. Even the Royal William at 1:72 will only break 45 inches long.
I think when you finish it, you will have trouble looking at any model under 45 inches and find that 4 1/2 feet is about right and wish there were more kits in this range. The only exception being the Sovereign and Soleil Royal. Currently, the only one that is 54 inches long now is JoTika's H.M.S Victory and everyone I heard likes this and none have said it is to big.
I added the second level to the stern and side galleries. The framework on the side has to be cut out and the only thing holding it all together is the decorations. The long castings are not done well and even using engraving cutters, the ends could not match because of excess flash. The other fitting used several mold that had minor difference. This is evident when you are about a foot away from the model. This part of the model is a decent representation of the museum model.
The stern extension is on 2 mm ply and has to be at a 14 degree angle to the base. With all the different angles, inconsistent casting and lack of supporting structure, this is a real difficult to build.
The stern extension is on 2 mm ply and has to be at a 14 degree angle to the base. With all the different angles, inconsistent casting and lack of supporting structure, this is a real difficult to build.
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CharlesEdward
Guest
It is still looking very good despite the difficulties and I am looking forward to building this kit evenutally.
Gary I understand what you are going through. I had very similar problems on Mamoli's Yacht Mary, but the metal castings included in the kit were not too bad.
I have heard about the inconsistant and bad casting molds on all of the Panart, Sergal and Mantua lines. They have not updated those originals molds for decades and I wonder if they ever will. This complaint has been echoed in many posts on a lot of forums I have read.
I really like the Soleil Royal and the Sovereign of the Seas and will purchase those kits eventually, probably after I purchase the San Felipe, which is a little cheaper
I have also heard that a lot of the famous Italian kit manufacturers have sourced out their kits to China, but the box will say so. If the kit was actually built in Italy it says that, if it was built in China it says made in Asia for Mantua or Panart or Sergal. Does your kit say made in Italy?
Gary I understand what you are going through. I had very similar problems on Mamoli's Yacht Mary, but the metal castings included in the kit were not too bad.
I have heard about the inconsistant and bad casting molds on all of the Panart, Sergal and Mantua lines. They have not updated those originals molds for decades and I wonder if they ever will. This complaint has been echoed in many posts on a lot of forums I have read.
I really like the Soleil Royal and the Sovereign of the Seas and will purchase those kits eventually, probably after I purchase the San Felipe, which is a little cheaper
I have also heard that a lot of the famous Italian kit manufacturers have sourced out their kits to China, but the box will say so. If the kit was actually built in Italy it says that, if it was built in China it says made in Asia for Mantua or Panart or Sergal. Does your kit say made in Italy?
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Yes, the box says made it Italy and so does my Sovereign kit.
I just bought The San Felipe kit at 1:50 scale from "http://www.woodmodelboatbuilder.com" www.woodmodelboatbuilder.com It is 47 1/4 by 36 1/4 by 18 7/8 inches. I did not like the looks of Mantua's model and never wanted to buy that one. When I saw this kit, I purchased it immediately. It was almost $500 and made in China. The kit is beautiful but very detailed with double planking and second planking will even be planked on the outside with precut wood of the proper length. All the castings are well done. This is a master level model. The model number is HL801.
I just bought The San Felipe kit at 1:50 scale from "http://www.woodmodelboatbuilder.com" www.woodmodelboatbuilder.com It is 47 1/4 by 36 1/4 by 18 7/8 inches. I did not like the looks of Mantua's model and never wanted to buy that one. When I saw this kit, I purchased it immediately. It was almost $500 and made in China. The kit is beautiful but very detailed with double planking and second planking will even be planked on the outside with precut wood of the proper length. All the castings are well done. This is a master level model. The model number is HL801.
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CharlesEdward
Guest
I am running over to that site now....wow that is a surprise of that much quality from what rumors say. Thanks Gary.
Remarkable detail-work Gary, those ornaments really spruce up your Soleil Royal
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CharlesEdward
Guest
Gary, so you will vouch for this kit? Per the pictures it does look very, very nice, but an totally unknown vendor. So if you received what it shows in the pictures I will probably buy it soon. It looks like you have to buy through the ebay link?
No plastic parts or bad quality materials, just a final check before I plunge and buy.
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The ship comes in two boxes. The filagree on the ship is a resin casting but it is flawlessly cast and all multiple pieces look identical. The kit is heavy. The cannons are metal and beautifully turned. There is two sheets of photo etched brass. This seems to be a museum worthy ship.
Print the pictures so you can use them during construction.
There is a binder size 48 page set of instructions in english with small pictures that detail the building with almost 300 steps and 10 sheets of parts.
Three sizes of each black and straw color rigging line is included. However, at this scale, probably at least 12 sizes of rigging line should be used.
Like I said, the kit is a master level work and not for the faint of heart. There is 4 sheets just for the laser cut wooden parts and 9 sheets of construction plans. The kit seems well thought out and is nicely presented.
Print the pictures so you can use them during construction.
There is a binder size 48 page set of instructions in english with small pictures that detail the building with almost 300 steps and 10 sheets of parts.
Three sizes of each black and straw color rigging line is included. However, at this scale, probably at least 12 sizes of rigging line should be used.
Like I said, the kit is a master level work and not for the faint of heart. There is 4 sheets just for the laser cut wooden parts and 9 sheets of construction plans. The kit seems well thought out and is nicely presented.