Mizen topgallant mast

Don Case

Don Case

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I'm slogging my way through the rigging on the Discovery1789. I'm looking at this drawing.

DISCOVERYprofile1.jpg
You can see the four deadeyes for the shrouds and just behind them and up a bit is a stool with one deadeye. I'm assuming that is for the topmast backstay. Since there doesn't seem to be any provision for terminating a topgallant backstay would you think that there probably wasn't a topgallant mast?
Or, is it possible that they had a topgallant mast with no backstay? That doesn't seem likely to me but what do I know :)
 
Is there something about this question that is unclear? It seems that I write confusing questions so I'm just double checking :)
 
Your question is clear enough to me. Unfortunately, I have no answer to help you. From a purely logical perspective it makes sense that it would be for a backstay. But for which section of mast I have no idea. Sorry.
 
Well this is a blow to my ego :). Olivier took the question to be about the stool(I think). It was actually about whether there was a topgallant mast or not. Maybe I shouldn't try to give so much detail. I dunno.

Y.T. when you say confusing do you mean hard to understand or just hard to answer because they are tough questions?
 
Don Case said:
Y.T. when you say confusing do you mean hard to understand or just hard to answer because they are tough questions?
Click to expand...
All questions you ask a completely legit questions. What is this forum for if not for asking them? I was just trying to joke. I am sorry if you had taken this as an offence.
 
Hi Don.
Rigged like this.
The topmast/topgallant mast would probably be in one piece. The mizen topgallant sail would be set flying as the fore and main royals.
The backstay is set up to a deadeye on the small stool abaft the mizen channel.
See the attached drawing item 41.00 and 44.00
Regards
Allan
 

Attachments

  • Investigator_standard rigging_MERCHANT_MIZ MAST.pdf
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  • Investigator_masts and spars_merch_miz mast.pdf
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alpayed said:
Hi Don.
Rigged like this.
The topmast/topgallant mast would probably be in one piece. The mizen topgallant sail would be set flying as the fore and main royals.
The backstay is set up to a deadeye on the small stool abaft the mizen channel.
See the attached drawing item 41.00 and 44.00
Regards
Allan
Click to expand...
Thanks again Allan. you've bailed me out a few times with this rigging and I really appreciate it. I did notice that this pdf is titled merchant rigging. The Discovery1789 would be Navy, I think. Do you think that would be an issue?
 
That's basically what I have now but you'll notice that there is two backstays on your (Peterssons) drawing and therefore two sets of deadeyes. If you look at the original drawing that I posted(first post) there is only provision for one backstay(one set of deadeyes). Because Allan's drawing combines the topmast and the topgallant mast it only needs one backstay.
 
Don Case said:
Thanks again Allan. you've bailed me out a few times with this rigging and I really appreciate it. I did notice that this pdf is titled merchant rigging. The Discovery1789 would be Navy, I think. Do you think that would be an issue?
Click to expand...
For my project I had the actual lower mast dimensions. They are closer to the proportions of a merchant vessel. I tagged the drawings merchant to distinguish them from the first drawings I did using naval dimension. The rigging drawings are essentially naval specs. Do you have any contemporary paintings or Discovery. It is possible that she had an individual topgallant mast but I don't think so. The single deadeye indicates as I said earlier.
In Flinders journal he mentions setting and taking in the fore, main royals and miz topgallant at the same time. This would indicate that the miz topgallant was set flying.
Steel describes miz topmast with topgallant in 1 pole. It was common in smaller sloop/ bark rigs.
Allan.
 
This is the best I can find so far. I believe it's is contemporary.

Illustration_of_the_sailing_vessel_DISCOVERY_in_Puget_Sound_(TRANSPORT_504).jpg

It looks to me like it has a single topmast/topgallant mast but it's hard to say. I have other paintings but I'm not sure how contemporary they are. If I open it separately and enlarge it I think can see that there are just two mizzen masts but the main mast has three masts. This is a good/bad thing as I have already done the topmast shrouds and ratlines :)
 
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There is also this one of her on the rocks. It kinda looks like one upper mast but I may be wishing things.download.jpg



And this one that may not be so old

300px-HMS_Discovery_1789_Vancouver.jpg
 
Hi Don. I think it is clear there is no evidence of topmast cross trees or topgallant shrouds. She had a mizzen topmast with a long pole head.
From Steel.
MIZZEN TOP-MAST. The square heeling is set up from the butt, having no block, and sometimes a long pole head, instead of a square head for a topgallant mast.
After the length is set off, set back three inches and a half in every yard in the length for the stop, and three-fifths that below for the hounds. Then from the stop set up three times that length, and two-thirds more for a long pole-head. The diameter of the upper part of the long pole-head to be two-thirds of the lower part, and line straight the whole length of the pole-head, and all below as the top-mast.
Mizen topmasts are trimmed as the former in proportion, but differ thus: viz. They have no block below the heel, only a square heeling at the butt, and a sheave-hole cut fore and aft through the hounds, one-third its length below the stops, for the topsail tye, in all ships.

If a long pole-head, it is rounded above the stops, and a sheave-hole cut through, fore and aft,once and a half its length above the stops, for the staysail haliards, and another sheave-hole, half its length below the head, for the mizen topgallant tye. Lastly, a square tenon is made on the upper part, as large as the head will admit, for the truck, which has a mortise the size of the tenon cutout in the middle, and driven on tight to its thickness.
Allan
 
Is this from "Rigging And Seamanship"? I've been poring through there all day and can't find anything. Pole-head sounds familiar though. Maybe I just jumped past it. Are you using Maritime.org for Steel. Maybe you have a link to that article.
 
OH, I found it. Well, most of it. I have the first half of what you quoted but not from "mizzen masts are trimmed" on.

Found it all now. First half is on pg 16 second half is on pg 30
Thanks Allan.
 
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29 feet but that was just a guesstimate. I think by the time I got that far I was using Mondfeld mostly. Or I may have purchased Lees by then. I managed to get the topmast out without damaging the rigging so I scarfed the two masts together. If the joint turns out OK I can use that. I'm assuming I will have to shorten the topgallant section but I haven't got that far yet.
 
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