Rattlesnake Kits???

Hi all - thanks for all the information. I'm still reading through all of the build logs, but a few points have weighed in on my decision-making. I love getting into the details, so a larger scale would help in that. I've also read that rigging the 1:64 model can be challenging around the masts, so again the larger scale should help reduce the crowding. Finally, my plan is to design and build a "fantasy" ship based off of a sixth rate frigate which was known for its speed, like Rattlesnake. I'm seeing that while doing a POF is more complicated, it would allow me the flexibility to make modifications (raising the forecastle to the height of the quarterdeck and enclosing it, creating a full-height enclosure on the quarterdeck and thereby creating a poop-deck).

I'm currently looking at the Lumberyard's kit. Unfortunately the description of what's included in the kit is not clear. I e-mailed Dave last week and still haven't heard back from him. I'm not sure if the kit is just the hull or if it includes the frame assembly jig, masts, yards, rigging, fittings, cannons, etc. Also, the description says there's enough planking for the upper-hull, but doesn't say if that's one or 2 layers. If anyone has seen the Lumberyard kit or if Dave sees this, I'd appreciate the feedback so I know what to expect and how much other stuff I'll need to buy.

One last thing, has anyone seen the practicums offered by Lauck Street Shipyard and are they worth the money?
 
AlanM said:
Hi all - thanks for all the information. I'm still reading through all of the build logs, but a few points have weighed in on my decision-making. I love getting into the details, so a larger scale would help in that. I've also read that rigging the 1:64 model can be challenging around the masts, so again the larger scale should help reduce the crowding. Finally, my plan is to design and build a "fantasy" ship based off of a sixth rate frigate which was known for its speed, like Rattlesnake. I'm seeing that while doing a POF is more complicated, it would allow me the flexibility to make modifications (raising the forecastle to the height of the quarterdeck and enclosing it, creating a full-height enclosure on the quarterdeck and thereby creating a poop-deck).

I'm currently looking at the Lumberyard's kit. Unfortunately the description of what's included in the kit is not clear. I e-mailed Dave last week and still haven't heard back from him. I'm not sure if the kit is just the hull or if it includes the frame assembly jig, masts, yards, rigging, fittings, cannons, etc. Also, the description says there's enough planking for the upper-hull, but doesn't say if that's one or 2 layers. If anyone has seen the Lumberyard kit or if Dave sees this, I'd appreciate the feedback so I know what to expect and how much other stuff I'll need to buy.

One last thing, has anyone seen the practicums offered by Lauck Street Shipyard and are they worth the money?
Click to expand...
Try to PM @Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) here on the forum
 
AlanM said:
Hi all - thanks for all the information. I'm still reading through all of the build logs, but a few points have weighed in on my decision-making. I love getting into the details, so a larger scale would help in that. I've also read that rigging the 1:64 model can be challenging around the masts, so again the larger scale should help reduce the crowding. Finally, my plan is to design and build a "fantasy" ship based off of a sixth rate frigate which was known for its speed, like Rattlesnake. I'm seeing that while doing a POF is more complicated, it would allow me the flexibility to make modifications (raising the forecastle to the height of the quarterdeck and enclosing it, creating a full-height enclosure on the quarterdeck and thereby creating a poop-deck).

I'm currently looking at the Lumberyard's kit. Unfortunately the description of what's included in the kit is not clear. I e-mailed Dave last week and still haven't heard back from him. I'm not sure if the kit is just the hull or if it includes the frame assembly jig, masts, yards, rigging, fittings, cannons, etc. Also, the description says there's enough planking for the upper-hull, but doesn't say if that's one or 2 layers. If anyone has seen the Lumberyard kit or if Dave sees this, I'd appreciate the feedback so I know what to expect and how much other stuff I'll need to buy.

One last thing, has anyone seen the practicums offered by Lauck Street Shipyard and are they worth the money?
Click to expand...
At least if you start with Dave's kit or the Mamoli kit, you'll get some decent wood with it. MS kits appear to only provide cheap white basswood. When you start with good hardwood, you don't HAVE to paint it to make it look good, you can just stain it and retain some of the wood's grain and character. With any kit, you'll probably bash it to include extras like better rigging and fixtures anyway, and you'll seek out Hahn's plans and other sources to improve the model and make it more accurate. If you work just from plans and a pile of good wood, you can set the scale to whatever size you want.
 
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the timbering sets by the lumberyard of Hahn's ships are not a kit they do not include rigging, fittings or mast
a timbering set is all the milled wood to build the hull and deck. These are admiralty style hulls where the lower part exposes the framing and planked above the wales. Builders will rarely frame up a hull then cover the framing with planking.
As for 2 layers of planking the timbering sets have just one layer of planking. The reason you find a double layer of planking in plank on bulkhead kits is because the blukheads are spaced far apart and a double layer prevents the planking from being flat between bulkheads. Double planking is not needed in a framed hull because the frames are close together.


Oliver Cromwell, POF ,Scale 1:48 by Lawrence [COMPLETED BUILD]

Hello Ship Mates I am about to start a P.O.F. build from a set of plans that I purchased through the Lumberyard from Harold M. Hahn. These are a very detailed set of plans that consist of 6 sheets of plans drawn up on 24” x 36” or 61 x 91.2 cm. I also purchased a Mast and Rigging sheet of...
shipsofscale.com

you may wnt to read through this build log of the Oliver Cromwell it is how the Hahn ships are built by making frame blanks from framing stock and cutting frames from the blanks.

a timbering set can be custom made you can select your own wood and add more hull planking
 
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AlanM said:
One last thing, has anyone seen the practicums offered by Lauck Street Shipyard and are they worth the money?
Click to expand...
I purchased the practicum for the Rattlesnake mast and rigging. I just started using it this past weekend for the masts. Initial impression: well worth the money. It took a lot of guesswork out of the build. I also purchased the second CD that only has pictures, I don't think that was worth the money because there are a lot of builds with pictures to be found.

I think that by the time I finish rigging the Rattlesnake, I probably wont need to buy another practicum on rigging for my next ship.
 
One last thing, has anyone seen the practicums offered by Lauck Street Shipyard and are they worth the money?

that is a subjective question and depends on your skill level, if you built any number of kits or scratch built then i would say the practicums would be just hints and tips. But if you are a beginner then yes they are worth the money.

the pros and cons are everything in the practicums can be found on line and in forums for free you just have to hunt for the information as where the practicums have the information all in one place.
 
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:
At least if you start with Dave's kit or the Mamoli kit, you'll get some decent wood with it. MS kits appear to only provide cheap white bass or boxwood. When you start with good hardwood, you don't HAVE to paint it to make it look good, you can just stain it and retain some of the wood's grain and character. With any kit, you'll probably bash it to include extras like better rigging and fixtures anyway, and you'll seek out Hahn's plans and other sources to improve the model and make it more accurate. If you work just from plans and a pile of good wood, you can set the scale to whatever size you want.
Click to expand...
Starting with a good base is my thought as well. I don’t plan to use much paint.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
the timbering sets by the lumberyard of Hahn's ships are not a kit they do not include rigging, fittings or mast
a timbering set is all the milled wood to build the hull and deck. These are admiralty style hulls where the lower part exposes the framing and planked above the wales. Builders will rarely frame up a hull then cover the framing with planking.
As for 2 layers of planking the timbering sets have just one layer of planking. The reason you find a double layer of planking in plank on bulkhead kits is because the blukheads are spaced far apart and a double layer prevents the planking from being flat between bulkheads. Double planking is not needed in a framed hull because the frames are close together.


Oliver Cromwell, POF ,Scale 1:48 by Lawrence [COMPLETED BUILD]

Hello Ship Mates I am about to start a P.O.F. build from a set of plans that I purchased through the Lumberyard from Harold M. Hahn. These are a very detailed set of plans that consist of 6 sheets of plans drawn up on 24” x 36” or 61 x 91.2 cm. I also purchased a Mast and Rigging sheet of...
shipsofscale.com

you may wnt to read through this build log of the Oliver Cromwell it is how the Hahn ships are built by making frame blanks from framing stock and cutting frames from the blanks.

a timbering set can be custom made you can select your own wood and add more hull planking
Click to expand...
Thanks for the information Dave. I plan on submitting an initial order shortly.
 
AlanM said:
Hi all - thanks for all the information. I'm still reading through all of the build logs, but a few points have weighed in on my decision-making. I love getting into the details, so a larger scale would help in that. I've also read that rigging the 1:64 model can be challenging around the masts, so again the larger scale should help reduce the crowding. Finally, my plan is to design and build a "fantasy" ship based off of a sixth rate frigate which was known for its speed, like Rattlesnake. I'm seeing that while doing a POF is more complicated, it would allow me the flexibility to make modifications (raising the forecastle to the height of the quarterdeck and enclosing it, creating a full-height enclosure on the quarterdeck and thereby creating a poop-deck).

I'm currently looking at the Lumberyard's kit. Unfortunately the description of what's included in the kit is not clear. I e-mailed Dave last week and still haven't heard back from him. I'm not sure if the kit is just the hull or if it includes the frame assembly jig, masts, yards, rigging, fittings, cannons, etc. Also, the description says there's enough planking for the upper-hull, but doesn't say if that's one or 2 layers. If anyone has seen the Lumberyard kit or if Dave sees this, I'd appreciate the feedback so I know what to expect and how much other stuff I'll need to buy.

One last thing, has anyone seen the practicums offered by Lauck Street Shipyard and are they worth the money?
Click to expand...
I have all of the Practicums offered by Bob Hunt and Lauck Street Shipyard. I can say they are absolutely worth the money. Bob takes you through the build process step by step and he has an easily understood teaching style. The practicum set is designed to take you from beginner to advanced skills. The first thing he will say is set aside and do not reference the instructions and the plan set unless he specifically says so. The second thing you will learn is the critical importance of relationships in the build process. In my experience I have learned a great deal and I say they are worth the money.
 
PGN said:
I think that by the time I finish rigging the Rattlesnake, I probably wont need to buy another practicum on rigging for my next ship.
Click to expand...
Yes, Bob might even say the same. The only issue would be if you were looking for masting and rigging for a specific model then, of course, the practicum for that model would prove helpful. I got the masting and rigging practicum for the Constitution and have used the tips, tricks, and process for all my other full rig ship models.
 
danielsje said:
Yes, Bob might even say the same. The only issue would be if you were looking for masting and rigging for a specific model then, of course, the practicum for that model would prove helpful. I got the masting and rigging practicum for the Constitution and have used the tips, tricks, and process for all my other full rig ship models.
Click to expand...
Just ran into a SNAFU. The measurements of the yards change. Just spent an hour working a yard only to find out 20 pages later that the measurements were wrong. The simple answer is to read ahead but you really don't understand if you don't go step by step. I am going to have to reference other sources before I am ready to start rigging. Maybe the rigging instructions will help...but right now...I'm questioning my purchase.
 
I assume you are referencing the mast ing and rigging practicum by Bob Hunt. If so email him with any questions or issues…he will help you sort them out. His on call expertise is a part of your practicum. Also, depending on the measurement difference the yard may well be fine as is.
 
danielsje said:
I assume you are referencing the mast ing and rigging practicum by Bob Hunt. If so email him with any questions or issues…he will help you sort them out. His on call expertise is a part of your practicum. Also, depending on the measurement difference the yard may well be fine as is.
Click to expand...
He did reply. He doesn't have the kit, plans, or model to refer to. He advised that I check the plans that came with the ship.

Measurement differences are 2 1/2". The Spritsail yard is 3 1/4" on page 45 and 5 3/4" on page 61. The MS plans has it at 5 1/2".

I'm just going to have to do some more cross referencing for each yard before I make it. I do l like the way he presents the rigging.
 
In this case go with the measurements as presented on the plan sheet. One of the problems Bob has is, as he stated, he no longer has the original models or plan sheets to reference some of the details in his practicums. And often the model kits and plan sheet change from when he did the builds. So go with your current plan sheet for the current measurement. 5 1/2“ actually sounds more realistic than the 3 1/4” from the practicum.
 
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