Is there some big deal here? NCC-1701 USS Enterprise never existed either yet many models of the starship have been built. Does a model ship have to depict a real ship? I was not aware of that rule. Just kidding of course. I think the ZHL San Felipe kit looks like it will build into an awesome model. Why does it matter if it was a real ship or not?
There is no big deal ..... at all.
Good to know this fact. I know that this was some years a bigger discussion about this ship, due to the fact, that there is a questionable San Felipe model in the exhibition in the German Technical Museum Berlin. This model was built mainly based on the Vincenzo Lusci drawings.
For everybody interested I found an article in the news of our german association "Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau" written by Thomas Feige:
interesting also this article - unfortunately also in german:
www.modelships.de
Let us agree here:
It is a very interesting spanish 3-decker ...... or spanish Ship of the Line somehow around 1700 .....
Good to know this fact. I know that this was some years a bigger discussion about this ship, due to the fact, that there is a questionable San Felipe model in the exhibition in the German Technical Museum Berlin. This model was built mainly based on the Vincenzo Lusci drawings.
For everybody interested I found an article in the news of our german association "Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau" written by Thomas Feige:
interesting also this article - unfortunately also in german:
San Felipe 1690, geschichtlicher Hintergrund
www.modelships.de
Let us agree here:
It is a very interesting spanish 3-decker ...... or spanish Ship of the Line somehow around 1700 .....
Hi Zoltan,
I'm quite sure that there has been many 'San Felipes' through the centuries. None of them was used for this kit. - What sense does it make to invent a ship, when there are waggonloads of plans of ships, that did exist?
Who needs that?
Best regards,
Woodworm
Why have they not created a kit of the 'Nuestra Señora de la Concepción y de las Ánimas' or the 'Real Felipe'?
Those ships DID EXIST!
Why invent such a thing???
Who needs that?
By the way: Thank you Uwe, for the URL! And here it is with the english translation: https://www.modelships.de/San_Felipe_1690_authenticity/San_Felipe_1690_authenticity.htm
Regards,
Woodworm
Those ships DID EXIST!
Why invent such a thing???
Who needs that?
By the way: Thank you Uwe, for the URL! And here it is with the english translation: https://www.modelships.de/San_Felipe_1690_authenticity/San_Felipe_1690_authenticity.htm
Regards,
Woodworm
Dusek has a Nuestra Senora
I understand that each of us has strong opinions on things, but we also have a personal preference to build something and some of us build for then fun or beauty of the kit alone, not the technical nature or reality. We build for the enjoyment, no matter the subject. Is the Millennium Falcon real ?. The USS Enterprise 1701 - d, no but that does not stop us building them for the fun of it.
Whist there are purists everywhere, there are also fantasists or dreamers as well. All the ships I have built a have been because I like the looks, not the facts.
Lets just enjoy the hobby, and if we wish to discuss the merits of a model do so in the kit review sections, not someones build log!
I certainly would not like being told my model was a waist of time. To me it's not, and I am sharing sharing "my build".
Whist there are purists everywhere, there are also fantasists or dreamers as well. All the ships I have built a have been because I like the looks, not the facts.
Lets just enjoy the hobby, and if we wish to discuss the merits of a model do so in the kit review sections, not someones build log!
I certainly would not like being told my model was a waist of time. To me it's not, and I am sharing sharing "my build".
Hallo,
we are here in the Kit Review area, so it is right location for such a discussion - and I guess more or less everything was mentioned already.
Also friends have sometimes different opinions and priorities - sometimes also in a marriage - and it is good so
I researched this a few years ago and did find the German page on the subject.I take a bit of a lighthearted view in that if you are building for personal pleasure,then build whatever makes you happy.If you are building for commercial purposes then this changes dramatically.
Panarts,Lusci's and Zhl's San Felipe are indeed based on Lusci's imagination.I would add though that both kit offerings differ quite a lot from Lusci's vision.
If you do wish to build an authentic 17th Century Spanish three decker,then Dusek's kit is the one to go for.I have it and is extremely close to the model displayed in the Spanish Maritime Museum'
If you are not bothered about historical accuracy,all three other representations build stunning models.
My only gripe with these fictitious kit's,is why do the manufacturers insist on supplying a load of false historical information?
Kind Regards
Nigel
Panarts,Lusci's and Zhl's San Felipe are indeed based on Lusci's imagination.I would add though that both kit offerings differ quite a lot from Lusci's vision.
If you do wish to build an authentic 17th Century Spanish three decker,then Dusek's kit is the one to go for.I have it and is extremely close to the model displayed in the Spanish Maritime Museum'
If you are not bothered about historical accuracy,all three other representations build stunning models.
My only gripe with these fictitious kit's,is why do the manufacturers insist on supplying a load of false historical information?
Kind Regards
Nigel
Gentlemen,
I have seen drawings and a painting of the Real Felipe. To my eye, it closely resembles the kits of the San Felipe, and I will build my kit as such. Also, although there never was a Dutch ship called Friesland, there was a two decker ship of the line names the Vest Friesland. My plan is to research the real ship as much as possible and build my kit as close as possible to the real ship. Yes, I understand that the research will be difficult, but I will make the effort. That is part of the fun to me.
I have attached two paintings and one color drawing of the Real Felipe to illustrate my point.
Bill
I have seen drawings and a painting of the Real Felipe. To my eye, it closely resembles the kits of the San Felipe, and I will build my kit as such. Also, although there never was a Dutch ship called Friesland, there was a two decker ship of the line names the Vest Friesland. My plan is to research the real ship as much as possible and build my kit as close as possible to the real ship. Yes, I understand that the research will be difficult, but I will make the effort. That is part of the fun to me.
I have attached two paintings and one color drawing of the Real Felipe to illustrate my point.
Bill
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Question: why is this kit so much less expensive than the Bonhomme Richard? They are close to the same size.
Probably not the same quality,also BR is not Zhl
I do not think it would matter at all whether we build a ship which is a model of a ship which existed or not. As Zoli is saying 'build what you like and like what you build'. I for one definitely would not build I.e. Black Pearl, not because she did not exist, but because she is so Hollywood-like. I built Caracca Atlantica which is also a fantasy-ship. Matter of personal taste and sometimes matter of circumstances. But at the end a model can not be judged only by the fact if it was an existing ship or not.
Janos
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When I built this more than 20 years ago, the internet was in its infancy, the literature available to me was minimal and I wanted to work with wood and build a model ship. I found out at the time that this was a"type" rather than an accurate reproduction and it served my purpose. I salute the researches that strive for historical truth but sometimes this is a never ending process (see HMS Victory "new"colours). For some of us, the chronological and geographic appropriateness are difficult enough
I personally prefer historically accurate ship models. Having found that San Felipe did not exist, I researched and found that Real Felipe did exist and is quite close to the San Felipe model, as is the Mamoli Friesland with the real Vest Friesland. Therefore, I will build those models as the real ships. But, as a professional historian and history teacher, accuracy is important if it is attainable.
Bill
Bill
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THe Mirage from Corel is a "mirage" so to speak
This of us who desire to build a model from a ship which actually existed would want to know if the ship kit they buy was real or fiction. Everyone who hasn't lived under a rock knows the Black Pearl was thought up by Disney, but kits of fake ships can be sold under false pretenses. One of these is San Felipe.
The story of how the San Felipe model came into history, spread to several model making companies, and became a popular ship model for hobbyists is one of the more interesting stories in history.... not maritime history, since there WAS no ship, but modelling history! Vincenzo Lusci made a big impact on the model industry. I used his rigging plans on my last ship build, La Couronne. What is curious is how model companies slowly built a historical backstory, a legend of sorts, to print on the box containing the model kit, telling of when San Felipe was built, how famous the ship was, and how San Felipe played a role in famous battles, all of it fiction. Imagine how many builders believe their model was a steeped in history as HMS Victory. It's not a harmful falsehood, but it is still fiction. Luckily, there are very few models based on imaginary ships. Victory Model's Lady Nelson is also based on a real vessel, but is based on a historical vessel type, the British cutter. Unlike San Felipe however, the model designer openly states that the Lady Nelson is a representative vessel, and makes no attempt to masquerade the origin of the model with a false backstory. A false backstory could be interpreted as a means to sell more models by making the model more appealing to model builders who appreciate history. I can see how that would sell more kits.
As an aside, the Lady Nelson appears to be one of the better quality kits out there, and looks like a fantastic build for the beginner. I found this build video below clever and quite entertaining.
The story of how the San Felipe model came into history, spread to several model making companies, and became a popular ship model for hobbyists is one of the more interesting stories in history.... not maritime history, since there WAS no ship, but modelling history! Vincenzo Lusci made a big impact on the model industry. I used his rigging plans on my last ship build, La Couronne. What is curious is how model companies slowly built a historical backstory, a legend of sorts, to print on the box containing the model kit, telling of when San Felipe was built, how famous the ship was, and how San Felipe played a role in famous battles, all of it fiction. Imagine how many builders believe their model was a steeped in history as HMS Victory. It's not a harmful falsehood, but it is still fiction. Luckily, there are very few models based on imaginary ships. Victory Model's Lady Nelson is also based on a real vessel, but is based on a historical vessel type, the British cutter. Unlike San Felipe however, the model designer openly states that the Lady Nelson is a representative vessel, and makes no attempt to masquerade the origin of the model with a false backstory. A false backstory could be interpreted as a means to sell more models by making the model more appealing to model builders who appreciate history. I can see how that would sell more kits.
As an aside, the Lady Nelson appears to be one of the better quality kits out there, and looks like a fantastic build for the beginner. I found this build video below clever and quite entertaining.
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Hi.
Here's a reply that I posted for Xander 898 today regarding the ZHL San Felipe.
It may be helpful for you.
There are quite a few errors on the plans provided, particularly the template for the Gun Ports.
I have suffered by using the template.
Look up ZHL Yuanqing models San Felipe on You Tube, there is a weekly construction update video, so far 13 available and he shows where the mistakes, in the plans are and how to go about correcting them. The videos are extremely detailed and helpful.
Welcome on board,
Good luck with the build.
Here's a reply that I posted for Xander 898 today regarding the ZHL San Felipe.
It may be helpful for you.
There are quite a few errors on the plans provided, particularly the template for the Gun Ports.
I have suffered by using the template.
Look up ZHL Yuanqing models San Felipe on You Tube, there is a weekly construction update video, so far 13 available and he shows where the mistakes, in the plans are and how to go about correcting them. The videos are extremely detailed and helpful.
Welcome on board,
Good luck with the build.