San felipe from zhl

mrshanks

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Is there some big deal here? NCC-1701 USS Enterprise never existed either yet many models of the starship have been built. Does a model ship have to depict a real ship? I was not aware of that rule. Just kidding of course. I think the ZHL San Felipe kit looks like it will build into an awesome model. Why does it matter if it was a real ship or not?
 

Uwek

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There is no big deal ..... at all.
Good to know this fact. I know that this was some years a bigger discussion about this ship, due to the fact, that there is a questionable San Felipe model in the exhibition in the German Technical Museum Berlin. This model was built mainly based on the Vincenzo Lusci drawings.
For everybody interested I found an article in the news of our german association "Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau" written by Thomas Feige:
interesting also this article - unfortunately also in german:

Let us agree here:
It is a very interesting spanish 3-decker ...... or spanish Ship of the Line somehow around 1700 .....
 

Woodworm

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There was a San Felipe ,just did not look like the kit model.
Hi Zoltan,

I'm quite sure that there has been many 'San Felipes' through the centuries. None of them was used for this kit. - What sense does it make to invent a ship, when there are waggonloads of plans of ships, that did exist?

Who needs that?

Best regards,
Woodworm
 

zoly99sask

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Why have they not created a kit of the 'Nuestra Señora de la Concepción y de las Ánimas' or the 'Real Felipe'?
Those ships DID EXIST!

Why invent such a thing???

Who needs that?

By the way: Thank you Uwe, for the URL!
Regards,
Woodworm
Dusek has a Nuestra Senora
 

paulv1958

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I understand that each of us has strong opinions on things, but we also have a personal preference to build something and some of us build for then fun or beauty of the kit alone, not the technical nature or reality. We build for the enjoyment, no matter the subject. Is the Millennium Falcon real ?. The USS Enterprise 1701 - d, no but that does not stop us building them for the fun of it.

Whist there are purists everywhere, there are also fantasists or dreamers as well. All the ships I have built a have been because I like the looks, not the facts.

Lets just enjoy the hobby, and if we wish to discuss the merits of a model do so in the kit review sections, not someones build log!
I certainly would not like being told my model was a waist of time. To me it's not, and I am sharing sharing "my build".
 

Uwek

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.....
Lets just enjoy the hobby, and if we wish to discuss the merits of a model do so in the kit review sections, not someones build log!
I certainly would not like being told my model was a waist of time. To me it's not, and I am sharing sharing "my build".
Hallo,
we are here in the Kit Review area, so it is right location for such a discussion - and I guess more or less everything was mentioned already.
Also friends have sometimes different opinions and priorities - sometimes also in a marriage - and it is good so
 

NMBROOK

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I researched this a few years ago and did find the German page on the subject.I take a bit of a lighthearted view in that if you are building for personal pleasure,then build whatever makes you happy.If you are building for commercial purposes then this changes dramatically.
Panarts,Lusci's and Zhl's San Felipe are indeed based on Lusci's imagination.I would add though that both kit offerings differ quite a lot from Lusci's vision.
If you do wish to build an authentic 17th Century Spanish three decker,then Dusek's kit is the one to go for.I have it and is extremely close to the model displayed in the Spanish Maritime Museum'
If you are not bothered about historical accuracy,all three other representations build stunning models.
My only gripe with these fictitious kit's,is why do the manufacturers insist on supplying a load of false historical information?

Kind Regards

Nigel
 

gisel

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If Vincenzo Lusci devoted his time away from pulling teeth and doing root canals, to draw up plans and constructed this model it is def. good enough for us mortals
 

WilliamMorrison

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Gentlemen,

I have seen drawings and a painting of the Real Felipe. To my eye, it closely resembles the kits of the San Felipe, and I will build my kit as such. Also, although there never was a Dutch ship called Friesland, there was a two decker ship of the line names the Vest Friesland. My plan is to research the real ship as much as possible and build my kit as close as possible to the real ship. Yes, I understand that the research will be difficult, but I will make the effort. That is part of the fun to me.

I have attached two paintings and one color drawing of the Real Felipe to illustrate my point.

1581362076213.png 1581362121513.png 1581362280536.png

Bill
 
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paulb

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Question: why is this kit so much less expensive than the Bonhomme Richard? They are close to the same size.
 

janos

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Well to me that is not completely new and I guess, the same goes for you, but I firmly believe, that there are many folks out there, that would like to build a "worthy", true and really historical ship model and get aggravated, when they learn to know (after endless hours that have been invested in the model), that their kit is based on lies, through and through.

I think, everybody has the right to know, if there ever has been a real ship, which had been built and has looked that way. - Also the Nation and the timeframe would be nice...

People may see this different.

I like to stay with the truth.

Yours,
Woodworm
I do not think it would matter at all whether we build a ship which is a model of a ship which existed or not. As Zoli is saying 'build what you like and like what you build'. I for one definitely would not build I.e. Black Pearl, not because she did not exist, but because she is so Hollywood-like. I built Caracca Atlantica which is also a fantasy-ship. Matter of personal taste and sometimes matter of circumstances. But at the end a model can not be judged only by the fact if it was an existing ship or not.
Janos
 
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stuglo

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When I built this more than 20 years ago, the internet was in its infancy, the literature available to me was minimal and I wanted to work with wood and build a model ship. I found out at the time that this was a"type" rather than an accurate reproduction and it served my purpose. I salute the researches that strive for historical truth but sometimes this is a never ending process (see HMS Victory "new"colours). For some of us, the chronological and geographic appropriateness are difficult enough
 

WilliamMorrison

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I personally prefer historically accurate ship models. Having found that San Felipe did not exist, I researched and found that Real Felipe did exist and is quite close to the San Felipe model, as is the Mamoli Friesland with the real Vest Friesland. Therefore, I will build those models as the real ships. But, as a professional historian and history teacher, accuracy is important if it is attainable.

Bill
 

janos

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I bet manufacturers try to avoid paying copyright fees with these 'close to the original' kits. This way they can use museum drawings with some corrections, the ship is nearly the same, just the name is fictional...
Janos
 
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