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Scroll saw or fret saw recommendations

Hello all..my two cents.. I have two older Craftsman scroll saws and a Helger..To be honest, I prefer my Craftsman saws.. I will say that I bought the Helger from a friend who had two.. ! Both are 16" I find the Helger to "vibrate" more, the Craftsman seem smoother.....Both are heavy! Don't overlook older machines for cheap.. I have two cheap bandsaw that I got for free..spend the extra money on a good bandsaw.. I also have the Byrnes saw and thickness sander..great machines...my favorite is a 1940's Dunlap small table saw ,, a little larger than the Byrnes..I use it to cut billets which can put too much strain on the Byrnes, but too small for a 10 " table saw. I understand that some have space issues..I am blessed in NY to have ample space, FL not so much! I go from 12X32 to 8X 10 ! Comments? Thanks,
John
 
What Russ has said in both posts. Being a guy who watches the tool market like some follow football, I always surprised by the consistently high marks given to the top-of-the-line Delta and DeWalt scroll saws, not that they are junk by any means, in comparison to the far higher priced professional machines such as the Hegner and Excalibur lines. I've come to conclude that the "ratings" sites on the internet are little more than paid advertising scams directed at the entry-level DIYer readers. They obviously see no point in telling their readers a $1,700 scroll saw is the best you can buy when they know one out of a thousand of their "weekend warriors" would ever spring for that much money to buy a scroll saw.

For some reason, scroll saws seem to breed in my shop. I've got a 1950's "old 'arn" Craftsman scroll/jig saw, made by King-Seeley, IIRC. My dad bought it new and handed it down to me. I don't use it much, but it was the first power tool he taught me to use as a kid and I'm sort of sentimentally attached to it. It will take jigsaw or saber saw blades, depending on the user's preference. (Without trying to explain it all here, the terms "jigsaw," "saber saw," and "scroll saw" have become rather muddled over the years.) Given the Craftsman's 1/2 horse motor and cast-iron weight advantage, as well as it's now-unusual "air piston dampening" vertical blade drive design, I'd describe it as a high-power and low vibration machine. A lot of the vibration depends upon my clamping its shop made rolling stand to a solid fixed workbench when in use. As a scroll saw, it may be overkill. I've used it to saw 2" mahogany with ease before I had a 14" bandsaw!

I also have a run-of-the-mill Craftsman scroll saw of recent vintage, given to me by somebody who wanted it out of the way. I've fiddled with it, out of curiosity, but it doesn't interest me. It's awaiting some needy youngster who may get some useful fun out of it.

Finally, I have a 21" Sakura parallel arm scroll saw, now (or until recently) sold by Tswood Machines which presently at least maintains parts and service for it. (See: https://www.pswood.com/21-scroll-saw-includes-stand-quick-change-2-dz-blades-more/) The Sakura scroll saws, made in the U.S.A., have been around for a while, but seem to have taken a back seat to Hegner and Excalibur saws. It's got all the bells and whistles, including the optional quick speed blade changer. It also exhibits negligible vibration when securely clamped to anything immovable, a necessity with just about any scroll saw, It has a a foot-pedal speed control which I especially like. (I am convinced any modern scroll saw mounted on the usual sheet metal legged machine stand is going to walk around the room if not otherwise well secured.) This Sakura, in its day about 30 years ago, was at or near the top of the heap. It still is capable of producing top notch work I can't complain about, so I'm happy to have it.

I don't think anybody will go wrong with a top end DeWalt or Delta, given my general impression of online commentary. I also found the Jet and Grizzly scroll saws interesting. If I had the money, though, I'd buy the Hegner or Excalibur, in that order, with the Hegner my first choice. The one thing I would do for sure, though, is spend as much time as I may have, depending upon how bad it's needed right now, to monitor the local eBay and other local online "for sale" sites to watch for something good coming up for much less than it's worth. For some reason, perhaps because a scroll saw is "approachable" for beginners, they seem to be a tool a lot of people buy and then lose interest in. There are a lot of scroll saws on the used market, many with "low mileage" and low prices, and so many bargains to be had. A quick Google Marketplace search in my neighborhood found an RBI Hawk for $175. (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/887249886900543?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp:6fa39d09-38e7-4183-bc51-a2c88623feca) Also a Hegner MultiMax 22, which retails around $2,000, for $800! (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1329321035530253?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp:6fa39d09-38e7-4183-bc51-a2c88623feca) and those two were just in my area. From all indications, the best bang for your buck will be to buy a used top of the line machine from someone who's trying to unload one.
 
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Bob Cleek said:
What Russ has said in both posts. Being a guy who watches the tool market like some follow football, I always surprised by the consistently high marks given to the top-of-the-line Delta and DeWalt scroll saws, not that they are junk by any means, in comparison to the far higher priced professional machines such as the Hegner and Excalibur lines. I've come to conclude that the "ratings" sites on the internet are little more than paid advertising scams directed at the entry-level DIYer readers. They obviously see no point in telling their readers a $1,700 scroll saw is the best you can buy when they know one out of a thousand of their "weekend warriors" would ever spring for that much money to buy a scroll saw.

For some reason, scroll saws seem to breed in my shop. I've got a 1950's "old 'arn" Craftsman scroll/jig saw, made by King-Seeley, IIRC. My dad bought it new and handed it down to me. I don't use it much, but it was the first power tool he taught me to use as a kid and I'm sort of sentimentally attached to it. It will take jigsaw or saber saw blades, depending on the user's preference. (Without trying to explain it all here, the terms "jigsaw," "saber saw," and "scroll saw" have become rather muddled over the years.) Given the Craftsman's 1/2 horse motor and cast-iron weight advantage, as well as it's now-unusual "air piston dampening" vertical blade drive design, I'd describe it as a high-power and low vibration machine. A lot of the vibration depends upon my clamping its shop made rolling stand to a solid fixed workbench when in use. As a scroll saw, it may be overkill. I've used it to saw 2" mahogany with ease before I had a 14" bandsaw!

I also have a run-of-the-mill Craftsman scroll saw of recent vintage, given to me by somebody who wanted it out of the way. I've fiddled with it, out of curiosity, but it doesn't interest me. It's awaiting some needy youngster who may get some useful fun out of it.

Finally, I have a 21" Sakura parallel arm scroll saw, now (or until recently) sold by Tswood Machines which presently at least maintains parts and service for it. (See: https://www.pswood.com/21-scroll-saw-includes-stand-quick-change-2-dz-blades-more/) The Sakura scroll saws, made in the U.S.A., have been around for a while, but seem to have taken a back seat to Hegner and Excalibur saws. It's got all the bells and whistles, including the optional quick speed blade changer. It also exhibits negligible vibration when securely clamped to anything immovable, a necessity with just about any scroll saw, It has a a foot-pedal speed control which I especially like. (I am convinced any modern scroll saw mounted on the usual sheet metal legged machine stand is going to walk around the room if not otherwise well secured.) This Sakura, in its day about 30 years ago, was at or near the top of the heap. It still is capable of producing top notch work I can't complain about, so I'm happy to have it.

I don't think anybody will go wrong with a top end DeWalt or Delta, given my general impression of online commentary. I also found the Jet and Grizzly scroll saws interesting. If I had the money, though, I'd buy the Hegner or Excalibur, in that order, with the Hegner my first choice. The one thing I would do for sure, though, is spend as much time as I may have, depending upon how bad it's needed right now, to monitor the local eBay and other local online "for sale" sites to watch for something good coming up for much less than it's worth. For some reason, perhaps because a scroll saw is "approachable" for beginners, they seem to be a tool a lot of people buy and then lose interest in. There are a lot of scroll saws on the used market, many with "low mileage" and low prices, and so many bargains to be had. A quick Google Marketplace search in my neighborhood found an RBI Hawk for $175. (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/887249886900543?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp:6fa39d09-38e7-4183-bc51-a2c88623feca) Also a Hegner MultiMax 22, which retails around $2,000, for $800! (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1329321035530253?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp:6fa39d09-38e7-4183-bc51-a2c88623feca) and those two were just in my area. From all indications, the best bang for your buck will be to buy a used top of the line machine from someone who's trying to unload one.
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This is very helpful and a lot to digest. You’ve given me a lot more to think about.
 
I have used various scroll saws for about 25 years and support Russ's comments. I believe with what you are asking of a scroll saw the Dewalt 788 or equivalent Delta would work very well for you. Those saws are designed for low vibration and smooth movement both of which contribute to maintaining your cut to the line. Of course practice is the final ingredient in accuracy.
 
Desert Sails said:
I’m looking to upgrade some of my tools. I’m currently using a Delta scroll saw but it’s not very accurate. Short of buying a a Hegner what recommendations would you all have for an upgrade to my Delta for wooden ship modeling?
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1. I have a Hegner I will sell. All the special tools come with it. I will send a foto , if you tell me where to send it'
2. If interested, email me and we can work things out.
3. wesiam12@gmail.com.
 
Corsair said:
If there is not a specific reason to use a scroll saw for your work, I prefer a bandsaw because the blade motion on the work is always downward which helps to keep the work on the cutting table, rather than the up and down motion of the scroll saw. Yes, you can make somewhat tighter curves with the scroll saw, but I've not found that to be an issue. If I really need to make some tight curves in some delicate work, I use a hand jewelers saw. I've even done some pretty fine work with my "big" 14" bandsaw because the blade is held tight close down to the work by the blade guide.
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YES!
 
I thank you all for your input and advice. I think I will take the advice of RussF, WDO and others and look at the Dewalt or an upgraded Delta from what I currently have. Again thank you all.
 
People seem to like the dewalt saws alot.
I have a hegner, an RBI and an old Jet that I inherited from my father.
The hegner is terrific, but the RBI is IMO just as good for alot less money.
That said, I don't use any of them much and would be willing to sell the hegner at an attractive price if you're anywhere near NJ.
 
zippy99 said:
People seem to like the dewalt saws alot.
I have a hegner, an RBI and an old Jet that I inherited from my father.
The hegner is terrific, but the RBI is IMO just as good for alot less money.
That said, I don't use any of them much and would be willing to sell the hegner at an attractive price if you're anywhere near NJ.
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Sorry West Coast sailor here. Thanks for the offer though.
 
RussF said:
My DeWalt does not. It's a heavy machine - perhaps that adds to its stability.
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Undoubtedly! I believe the top-end DeWalt scroll saws actually have cast iron tables and this is probably one reason they generally get good reviews. Those that are "old style" heavy machines won't have the same tendency to move as do the nowadays more common lighter weight machines.
 
From participating and closely following all of these tool debates here on SOS there appear to be two separate and distinct camps.

1. Those of us that have lots of space and who can disregard dirt and noise. Usually those living in houses with basements or separate outbuildings. We tend to prefer full sized tools driven by high voltage (110 or 220) motors. Some of us like Bob Cleek and me like older tools made when machined cast iron and steel was standard. We enjoy the simplicity of operation, their long term reliability, and ability to tackle large jobs.

2. Those living where space is a premium. Sometimes where ship modeling is done in the presence of other family members. In these cases dirt must be minimized and noise can’t be tolerated. For good reasons, the newer smaller and often low voltage machines appeal to this group. The Proxxon saw that someone posted above was an 18v machine.

So, each group has its own good reason for buying the tools that they do. Trying to convince someone living in an apartment to buy a large Delta jig saw is as pointless as trying to convince me to give up mine for an 18v Proxxon.

Roger
 
Roger Pellett said:
So, each group has its own good reason for buying the tools that they do. Trying to convince someone living in an apartment to buy a large Delta jig saw is as pointless as trying to convince me to give up mine for an 18v Proxxon.
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I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis, Roger. I remember the days when I built models and then some out of an army surplus footlocker that lived in the corner of our one-bedroom apartments. However, what bothers me are the limited capacities and apparent low quality of so many of the "mini" low voltage DC hobby tools, given their expense, which often seem to make them a poor buy under any circumstances. Often, the new retail cost of one of those DC "mini" machines will well exceed the used cost of the full-sized version in "old 'arn." Obviously, there are "miniature" tools that are excellent values and warranted by their specific "miniature" uses (e.g. the Byrnes Model Machines, and the Unimat, Sherline, and Taig lathes.) I'm talking about the proliferation of "wall wort" powered plastic stuff on the market. Sometimes I think those who are limited by space and noise issues would be better off investing in quality hand tools and learning how to keep them sharp and use them well, instead of wasting money on poor quality plastic and stamped metal toy-quality miniature power tools. If we look at Gerald Wingate's workshop in Techniques of Ship Modeling, and the workshops of Philip Reed and Norman Ough in their books, it's obvious none of them had problems turning out some of the finest models of the Twentieth Century without garages full of full-scale power tools, that's for sure!

I think part of the distinctions you've accurately identified get overlooked is because the posts so often ask, "What's the best widget." when they should more accurately disclose the poster's absolute limitations and constraints, at least in terms of space, noise, and price point. If somebody wants to know the best without qualifications, we tend to assume they don't have any. We've seen that with bandsaws and sensitive drill presses in the last few days: "Pay $1,500 for a drill press! Heck no!" and "Who'd pay $2,000 for a jig saw?" Yeah, I hear that, but they asked. :rolleyes:
 
Bob Cleek said:
I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis, Roger. I remember the days when I built models and then some out of an army surplus footlocker that lived in the corner of our one-bedroom apartments. However, what bothers me are the limited capacities and apparent low quality of so many of the "mini" low voltage DC hobby tools, given their expense, which often seem to make them a poor buy under any circumstances. Often, the new retail cost of one of those DC "mini" machines will well exceed the used cost of the full-sized version in "old 'arn." Obviously, there are "miniature" tools that are excellent values and warranted by their specific "miniature" uses (e.g. the Byrnes Model Machines, and the Unimat, Sherline, and Taig lathes.) I'm talking about the proliferation of "wall wort" powered plastic stuff on the market. Sometimes I think those who are limited by space and noise issues would be better off investing in quality hand tools and learning how to keep them sharp and use them well, instead of wasting money on poor quality plastic and stamped metal toy-quality miniature power tools. If we look at Gerald Wingate's workshop in Techniques of Ship Modeling, and the workshops of Philip Reed and Norman Ough in their books, it's obvious none of them had problems turning out some of the finest models of the Twentieth Century without garages full of full-scale power tools, that's for sure!

I think part of the distinctions you've accurately identified get overlooked is because the posts so often ask, "What's the best widget." when they should more accurately disclose the poster's absolute limitations and constraints, at least in terms of space, noise, and price point. If somebody wants to know the best without qualifications, we tend to assume they don't have any. We've seen that with bandsaws and sensitive drill presses in the last few days: "Pay $1,500 for a drill press! Heck no!" and "Who'd pay $2,000 for a jig saw?" Yeah, I hear that, but they asked. :rolleyes:
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You make some very valid points which over that last couple of days this forum has taught me much.
 
After 40 years with my old Dremel Moto-Shop, I bought a Rikon, on the advice of a clerk at a Woodcraft shop. My advice on this choice is simple: don't.
 
Re; Gerald Wingrove and Norman Ough:
I had a friend who decided to take up woodworking. His interest was building furniture. He outfitted his shop with equipment and went to work. The furniture that he made was an example of precision woodworking but to me there was something unappealing about it. I later got to see his shop. No hand tools! I then realized that there is something about hand work that makes ordinary things art.

Roger
 
Corsair said:
Interesting. My bandsaw is a Rikon and I'm very happy with it. What issue are you having?
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The knob tightening the drop foot tends to loosen with the vibration of the saw, but when tightened up, can make it difficult to move stock through the blade. This is further complicated because the throat plate is just slightly lower than the surface of the work table. Stock tends to get caught on the higher edge of the work table. The drop foot must then be loosened to proceed and hastily retightened once the stock is past the surface discrepancy. Makes accurate cuts sometimes a challenge.
Perhaps I should have bought a bandsaw instead.
 
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