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Second planking.

Hi Allan
Thanks for posting those. I wish he showed planking including the thick stuff above and below the wales as well as the rest of planking, not just the wales. Do you know if he includes any other drawings with all the planking such as the Admiralty planking expansion drawings below of both inboard and outboard strakes. Thanks again!
Allan
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bluenos2 said:
Hello Les here. I have my Mamoli Endeavour planked down to and including the wales. I would appreciate some advice on the sequence for planking down to the keel. I have Marquardt's book on the subject. I have seen various methods but don't know which to use. Thnx.
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I can recommend
How to plank the hull of a wooden model boat by G Kip on YouTube
Happy modeling
Ted
 
alpayed said:
Hi Les.
This may help. It's part of my booklet on planking.
I have been revising it a bit for an updated issue.

Regards
Allan
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Allen

I am having troubles figuring out the plank widths at the bow.

page 20 of your PDF. The stem tick marks at band b and c especially.

I understand where to lay tick strips along the frames between the band lines on the frame from frame 2 on that is no issue.

In figure 12c How do I find the length (band width) along the stem to know where to put my tick marks? There is no frame to reference at that location. I hope this makes sense. I've read many post here and I am just having a brain fart on how it is done. I've watched many videos but no one really explains the aspect of it. even chucks video is allusive on how. What would be ultimate is if you or someone else could make a short video and post it for me as I am more of a visual kind of guy.

TIA
Dave
 
Dcox1961 said:
I've tried that, it does not give me even spacing.
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Take an average spacing over bands of, say, five planks. Plank ends at the bow will flex up or down a bit when fitting and an averaged, uniform width at the stem will look more pleasing than customised variations.
Text book lining off is fine in theory but shaping the width of every plank to match every tick mark is a big ask. A bit of empirical tweaking and bending of each plank after a dry test fit is often needed.
 
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Short John Bronze said:
Take an average spacing over bands of, say, five planks. Plank ends at the bow will flex up or down a bit when fitting and an averaged, uniform width at the stem will look more pleasing than customised variations.
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As I said. I am having a brain fart. In my mind right now I can't find an average because I don't have a distance to measure from (two points of reference). Do I measure from where the lower band meets the stem and measure up perpendicular to the band line to get the closest approximation or do I measure the curve (arc length) of the stem between the lines? If measuring the curve what is the easiest way to do that? I don't want to just eyeball an equal width of planks. I really would like to know how to do it mathematically just so I know. Yes I am fairly anal when it comes to things.....lol

I am sure I am way over thinking the process and I know there is a very simple way. I am just brain blocked for some reason. that is why I would love to just watch someone explain it in a video.
 
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Hi Les.
I don't think there is an absolute mathematical (or 2d graphical) way of determining this.
There has to be a bit of "eyeballing" or feel to get the planks mated to the stem piece.
The planks tend to narrow above the line dividing the upper and lower belts and widen somewhat below.
The widening at the stern post is sometimes quite pronounced.
You can take this dividing of the planks into belts further at the bow and stern. this will help you determine the "tick" points on the stem and stern posts.
Lay a plank along the tick marks (in this example) on frames 3,4,5 and allow it to bend over to the stem. This will give you a tick mark there.
Do this every 5 planks or so. Then divide the distance between into the respective number of planks.
Hope this helps.
Regards
AllanFIG 12A temp2.png
 
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alpayed said:
There has to be a bit of "eyeballing" or feel to get the planks mated to the stem piece.
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I may be wrong as I see no reason for eyeballing but whatever works for any individual is the way to go. Trace the area of the bow from the plans and divided the length of the line by the number of strakes. With the curve at the rabbet at the stem, small segments can be used to get the total length of the line.

Planking expansion drawings such as the one in post #21 above are best if available but if not this can be done on our own using the profile drawing. Please keep in mind the template sketches are rough but hopefully will show the idea. The last sketch should be the width of the stem in front of the rabbet so it lays flat on the stem.

Allan
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Thinking more about methods that I have tried, some may like the following method. Why I never thought of this before is beyond me, but I will be trying it in the future. If anyone does try it I would love to hear/see how it goes, both the plusses and minuses.

Using a very small piece of square stock (1 or 2mm square), or a plastic strip, clamp it to the stem so it follows the curve. Cut it at the top of the stem and measure the full length. Divide the length (this happens to be 124mm) by the number of strakes and you will have the breadth at the stem. They can then be marked with a sharp marker or pencil if wood is used. To minimize cumulative error, use bands of 4 or 6 or even 8 strakes then divide appropriately. For example, If there are 40 strakes, each will be 3.1mm. Each band could be 12.4mm or 28.8mm or whatever the builder chooses.. Once these are marked off on the hull, if there is a slight error, it can be accounted for on the next band to be planked.
Allan

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AllanKP69 said:
Thinking more about methods that I have tried, some may like the following method. Why I never thought of this before is beyond me, but I will be trying it in the future. If anyone does try it I would love to hear/see how it goes, both the plusses and minuses.

Using a very small piece of square stock (1 or 2mm square), or a plastic strip, clamp it to the stem so it follows the curve. Cut it at the top of the stem and measure the full length. Divide the length (this happens to be 124mm) by the number of strakes and you will have the breadth at the stem. They can then be marked with a sharp marker or pencil if wood is used. To minimize cumulative error, use bands of 4 or 6 or even 8 strakes then divide appropriately. For example, If there are 40 strakes, each will be 3.1mm. Each band could be 12.4mm or 28.8mm or whatever the builder chooses.. Once these are marked off on the hull, if there is a slight error, it can be accounted for on the next band to be planked.
Allan

View attachment 534620

View attachment 534621
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Hello, if I understand correctly , the coments should be length from stern to bow? That is impossible.Frank
 
Frank48 said:
Hello, if I understand correctly , the coments should be length from stern to bow? That is impossible.Frank
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Hi Franco
I think I did not communicate this well. I was writing about the length of the measuring stick, in the case of the photo, the white plastic piece that follows the rabbet at the stem. Once clamped in place I cut it at the top of the upper most plank. It has nothing to do we the ship aft of the boxing joint of the keel.

Obviously the wales will have an effect, especially if top and butt or anchor stock, but in that case, the same principal can be used for measuring from the bottom of the wales to the garboard strake. I like to install the garboard sometimes one more strake before attempting to line out the run of the planking.

Allan

Hope the below explains things more clearly. Once the measuring material is clamped in place, cut it where it lines up with the top of the uppermost plank strake (or from the bottom of the wales. Measure the length of the stick and divide by the number of strakes.

1753833503305.jpeg
 
You cannot simply divide the length A-D into equal parts. Assuming frames 4,5,6 are divided correctly and frames 2,3 ignored, here is a guess at what the result is.
It does not work because the edge of the stem is in a different plane to the frames.
If frames 2,3,4 are ignored the lines look OK but in practice you will find the planks cupping over those frames. (lower edge protruding or not sitting on the frame).
Dividing the distance A-D into smaller lengths is a good approximation, but determining where these sections or bands are depends on the shape of the frames.
At the bow the frame can go from convex to concave as it approaches the keel or the stem so the planks tend to widen as they meet the stem lower down. keeping this in mind the best way of finding these points on the stem is with a riband or thin plank to follow the curve of the hull to the stem and then mark those points on the stem.
The sections between can then be divided equally. This is not entirely accurate but it is more than adequate for model building. This is what I described in #28.
They are indicated on this image by the thin black lines, the thick black lines and the green lines.
Regards
Allan



FIG 12A temp5.png
 
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Hi Allan
You are absolutely correct. I did a rough drawing (below) with an arbitrary plank breadth to check relative dimensions and am embarrassed that I missed this basic math. I think now that the old string method for creating bands still works best. The idea of the strip was simple, but alas, will not work. Thanks for your help :)

Allan

1753868137985.jpeg
 
Hi Allan.
Your idea of dividing a straight line and projecting it onto the curve is sound. Just limit it to line covering 4 or 5 planks. The problem is determining a start an finishing point of the line or lines.
The practice of dividing the planking into "belts" was practiced long before us. I plagiarized it years ago.
I don't bother with tick marks on the stem piece or stern for that reason. If you have divided the frames up to frame 4 (above) the remaining ends to the rebet usually just fall into place.
Regards Allan
 
As an exercise, I ran a rough computer model of a hull and performed lining out on each individual plank in a band. Starting with the full 5mm plank width on the widest bulkhead the results for the estimated plank width on each bulkhead (staring with the stem) are tabulated below.
The results on any given bulkhead (a column of figures) are anything but uniform or even monotonic. A plank does not touch a bulkhead at all points across its width (as equally spaced tick points would be marked): its width is a tangent to the curve of the bulkhead. At every bulkhead the angle of this tangent to the vertical will differ. Each plank must touch the previous one: the point of contact at the seams is not in contact with the bulkhead. The meeting planks are angled differently and bent to a different extent along their length.
This analysis is approximate but suggests that the text book lining off methods will never be exact - though they are usually adequate.
A corollary of this analysis is that the chamfering of the plank edges would need to be very varied and complex if perfect matching of the edge surfaces were to be achieved. In practice: planks will flex laterally to some extent, glue and varnish simulate caulking and a planked hull is rarely viewed under a microscope.
May I suggest that one follows the tried and tested lining off methods but but not take their predictions too literally.

Plank width estimates. (mm) The stem is the first non zero value in each row,
plank 1 mid height on widest bulkhead ( 7 ) 57.5
3.6 3.88 3.95 3.8 4.9 4.94 5 5 4.86 4.88 4.77 4.43 4.61
plank 2 mid height on widest bulkhead ( 7 ) 52.51
4.12 4.45 4.39 4.23 4.68 4.84 5 5 4.56 4.59 4.59 4.44 4.54
plank 3 mid height on widest bulkhead ( 7 ) 47.56
4.02 4.41 4.17 4.3 4.46 4.8 5 5 4.37 4.34 4.44 4.43 4.06
plank 4 mid height on widest bulkhead ( 7 ) 42.71
1.91 3.22 3.99 4.21 4.33 4.88 5 5 4.54 4.42 4.6 4.97 4.49
plank 5 mid height on widest bulkhead ( 7 ) 37.99
0 3 3.96 4.08 4.26 4.91 5 5 4.63 4.49 4.45 6.98 3.29
plank 6 mid height on widest bulkhead ( 7 ) 33.4
0 3.95 4.21 4.27 4.51 4.93 5 5 4.71 4.6 4.53 3.95 5.76
plank 7 mid height on widest bulkhead ( 7 ) 28.98
0 4.24 4.4 4.48 4.65 4.94 5 5 4.77 4.58 4.76 6.26 5.55
plank 8 mid height on widest bulkhead ( 7 ) 24.72
0 4.34 4.43 4.6 4.69 4.95 5 5 4.81 4.61 4.78 6.08 5.43
 
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