Should our hobby enjoy perpetuation or become past history?

Jwallkc said:
How sad, the elitist nature of that club... Makes no sense to me but every club has its rivet counters... Many bemoan the waning interest in the hobby over the years with the younger generation but perhaps it's the fault of those elites back then to share their knowledge and passion beyond the walled garden.
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The sad part is that this type of elitism is alive and well in some organisations and clubs and evolved into trying to control the hobby
 
The sad part is that this type of elitism is alive and well in some organisations and clubs and evolved into trying to control the hobby

elitism is a good thing if used in a proper manner there are those who accomplished more than i can imagine, the master class they worked for it.

but idea is not to make it some sort of esoteric knowledge, share it, teach it, pass it on and on.

like everything else it gets corrupt when someone figures out there is a profit to be made in selling information. profit to greed and greed to control and then to downfall because there is always a Yin to a Yang

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Marc Mosko said:
Thank you all for the Kudos. You might be pleased to know that Model Expo will have succession as I plan to retire on my 100th birthday (quite a few years from now).and employ young people who are enthusiastic about their future at our company. But when I do retire the company's marketing strategy will go forward. I believe that the ticket to success is the perpetuation of the wood ship model hobby by recruiting younger generations into the hobby. I leave catering to highly experienced model builders to the boutique companies like Syren Ship Models and Vanguard. I believe that new hobbyists can only be taught with an intelligently designed series of model kits starting with kits like Dories and then moving slowly upwards to single masted boats. David Antscherl has created a school of ship-modeling which we call the Shipwright Series, which are highly successful kits and enjoy big sales. I would urge you to think about recruiting new wood ship model builders. Let's grow the family.
I have news. Many of you remember Midwest Product kits. Recently we signed a long-term contract with Saunders-Midwest enabling us to manufacture and market world-wide all 38 kits produced by Midwest since its inception. The first four kits are in production as I write and the plan is to release at least 10 kits per year. See attached.
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I think producing a bunch of introductory kits is a stroke of genius. Some model companies like OcCre have simplified two masted schooners. The desire of many beginners is to jump right in and build something well known such as HMS Victory but are hugely intimidated by the complexity and amount of work. Simpler kits like Artesania Latina's San Francisco II fill that desire without being too much of a challenge because they also have detailed, illustrated instructions. The only company that has combined details instruction for beginners with complex ships is DeAgostini, but they are hugely expensive and the wood is substandard quality.
 
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I think producing a bunch if introductory kits is a stroke of genius.

i agree

the trend was going toward complex expensive kits which is fine but we can not ignore where it starts as the saying goes "all professionals start out as amateurs" same here in this hobby Model Expo and ships in Scale need to work hand in hand to promote the hobby.
I have seen some of these simple kits reworked into a diorama that are fantastic so a lot can be done with something simple.
Our hobby is facing opposition who go as far as to post bogas kit reviews and warp the truth. Why this is done i do not know. In my opinion if you are posting remarks about a kit or review a kit you should have the kit in front of you, and you should build it that is what a review is, and not make off the wall remarks. That hurts the hobby.
 
A lot of time kit, or product reviews are provided by individuals that have been given a certain product by companies that are sure they are going to receive a favourable review in return. It stands to reason that the people doing the review will never get another free kit to evaluate from a company that is not pleased by the review. I have read kit reviews in model magazines where the person doing the evaluation continuously raves on about how well everything fit together and the detail was perfect. And because they felt that there should also be a negative comment about the product to add validity to their review they criticized something totally useless such as "the photo or box art could have been improved".
 
fourseas said:
A lot of time kit, or product reviews are provided by individuals that have been given a certain product by companies that are sure they are going to receive a favourable review in return. It stands to reason that the people doing the review will never get another free kit to evaluate from a company that is not pleased by the review. I have read kit reviews in model magazines where the person doing the evaluation continuously raves on about how well everything fit together and the detail was perfect. And because they felt that there should also be a negative comment about the product to add validity to their review they criticized something totally useless such as "the photo or box art could have been improved".
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Yeah. Reviews like that are absolutely useless.
 
Yeah. Reviews like that are absolutely useless.

i personally run into reviews of the same kit that are polar opposite, much depends on the skill and experence of the builder doing the review. If you do not have much building experence and select a difficult kit your review might lean toward "it is a difficult kit to build". The same kit in the hands of someone who built a number of kits may say it is an easy kit to build. As far as materials that comes down to opinion one review will say the kit is nice the only problem is the Basswood used which is to soft a wood, but yet a kit will get good marks that used a wood like Alaskan Yellow Cedar which is as soft as Basswood.
The best way to review a kit is either to read several reviews or read build logs, which i hope we will see many of Model Expos new line of kits here on SoS.

What it totally useless is a review such as the following

.........You may have noticed the latest pirated kit the Hayling Hoy is now making its rounds.
None of the parts fit as is typical and the instructions render this kit almost unbuildable....again very typical. Just check out the
build logs of pirated Hayling kit from China on other forums. Its a complete disaster and a waste of money. Literally unbuildable
but they are still selling them to unsuspecting builders...........
Nautical Research Guild

there is so much garbage here where do you start?

if the person posting the review never built the kit how does he know the parts do not fit? as a matter of fact he never even saw the kit let alone built it. Unbuildable you can see build logs here of the kit being built. So the person making the post obviously does not have the skills to build such a kit.

first off a pirated kit would need a kit to copy, if it is the only kit on the market what was it pirated from?

stated from the designer
"We used the high-resolution scanned drawings preserved by the National Maritime Museum as the base of design to ensure the accuracy of the kit.
Combined with dozens of relevant ship type drawings, a large number of books, and relevant models, we were able to restore most of the details
of the ship."
The kit was developed based on a drawing from National Maritime Museum (NMM) utilizing 3D technology to loft the frames

for the ill informed this is called "research"


i think good unbiase kit reviews are great if done right and i hope to see more on ships of Scale, these reviews are read by beginners and that is what gets them interested in the hobby. Posting negative bogus reviews does not do any good for the hobby or for those looking to get started in the hobby.
 
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Marc Mosko said:
Hello ... my name is Marc Mosko and I've never built a wood model ship before, nor a plastic model - nor any model.

So what am I doing here on your forum? I have good reason. I believe that wood ship model building hobby is a family. Many of us help each other by posting build logs, write articles about our work and create fine models that become legacies. This is the first time in 46 years I've posted on any forum. I figured it's about time. I've been a silent family member for too long.

Here's my story. In the early 1970's I worked and lived in Italy. Due to the strangest of circumstances, I invested and partnered with an Italian in Rome, Italy. We operated a small chain of toy and hobby shops. One day I was in our main store and short, smiling young red-headed man came in carrying a huge wood model kit of HMS Victory. He introduced himself as Sergio Fabrizi. He had just created a new business called Sergal. Passionately, he insisted that his was the world's finest wood model kit and that he selected our store for the introduction of his kit. I negotiated by offering him a place for his built model in our store window and an acceptable price. We agreed, the kits sold well and Sergal (now part of Mantua Model) was born. And I fell in love with model ship building.

Shortly after I took a kit of HMS Victory home with intent to build it. After spending hours over the weekend fitting bulkheads to false keel, working on alignment and finally realizing that if I continued I not only needed expert help but that I would have to sacrifice too much time away from my business. So I stopped. But then I saw that the hours spent were so focused on the building that I thought of nothing else ... not business, not even family, a total escape and a pleasant one. I got to thinking. Wow! What a terrific way for hassled employees, business men and others to eliminate stress. How many of us needed a hobby, I thought? Since I was a born salesman I started thinking as to how we could market wood ship model kits outside of our store.

I went to my partner, Guido (of course), and said, "Guido, let's start a business where we get money in the mail". He answered, "Italy is a land of small shops so no one buys through the mail". He was right so I started thinking America. We had no internet in the 1970's, not even credit cards for mail purchases. Customers had to send a check. No matter. I created an ad selling wood ship models and mailed it to a friend in advertising in New York. He put the ad into Yachting Magazine and then Smithsonian magazine. Yes, people sent checks to Italy, we mailed kits to America and Model Expo was born.

In 1976 Guido and I decided that Model Expo's new home had to be America and we set up shop in New Jersey. Like all small businesses it was rough and the competition did not welcome us. Companies like James Bliss, Boyd, Marine Model, Bluejacket, Scientific Model, Midwest and Model Shipways wanted us gone. We countered by looking for new (wanna-be) ship modelers. We invented simple kits with tools and good instructions in hopes of creating our own customers who had never build wood models before. We also stole some customers from our competitors because they refused to replace missing parts, so we did.

Obsessed with getting new people into the hobby we spent lots of money on advertising kits with tools (Example - Swift, by Artesania Latina) and sold tens of thousands. Many of those first time builders went on to become serious model ship builders. We were still at the outset of our company's growth and this leads me to the main reason I wrote all you've read above.

In the early 1980's I was approached by a New Jersey ship modeling club. Since the club collected no dues and needed to rent a place for their meetings they approached me and John Shedd, then owner of Model Shipways asking us to contribute $50 each so they could rent a location. I agreed and went to the meeting where I met John Shedd of Model Shipways for the first time. The meeting was fascinating, particularly the Show and Tell where various building techniques, shortcuts and tools were shown by members. I got excited about what I saw and heard and thought about the thousands of new first time ship modelers that Model Expo was creating. We had a large customer list and many of our customers lived within driving distance of the meeting place.

I couldn't resist. Towards the end of the meeting I stood up and asked, " Can I describe your club and meeting schedule in our next catalog so that local first-time model ship builders can attend and learn from all of you?" I was met with silence. After a few moments, the president of the club said, apologetically, "I don't think so. This really is not a school for ship model building."

Over the years, I've had numerous similar disappointing experiences, which I'm happy to say constitute a small minority among excellent ship modelers but were characteristic of a few who feel they are the most knowledgeable. I like to call them the high priests of ship model building who contribute no new passages to their bible. I believe in perpetuating the hobby. I like to think that Model Shipways Inc. dba Model Expo has made a serious contribution to expanding the wood ship model hobby. By our count we have started over 250,000 customers on wood ship model building. Of course, many of them are no longer with us and the majority gave up perhaps for the same reason I did when I started. But Model Expo is still seriously focused on creating new wood ship model hobbyists. I would hope that all of you reading this forum are passing on your acquired skills, and knowledge to all generations so that they too can enjoy what you love and leave a legacies of fine miniatures depicting our nautical heritage.

I welcome your thoughts and comments,

Marc Mosko
Model Shipways Inc. dba Model Expo
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Hallo @Marc Mosko
we wish you all the BEST and a HAPPY BIRTHDAY
Birthday-Cake
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
The sad part is that this type of elitism is alive and well in some organisations and clubs and evolved into trying to control the hobby

elitism is a good thing if used in a proper manner there are those who accomplished more than i can imagine, the master class they worked for it.

but idea is not to make it some sort of esoteric knowledge, share it, teach it, pass it on and on.

like everything else it gets corrupt when someone figures out there is a profit to be made in selling information. profit to greed and greed to control and then to downfall because there is always a Yin to a Yang

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Well said Dave. And as an acupuncturist since 1987, I know there is nothing more certain than perpetual motion creating equilibrium and balance given enough rotations of the turning, elusive, precious and irreplaceable wheel and treasure we call time. New becomes old, old becomes new but building and creating is part of Human endeavour so this hobby, I believe, will always stand the test of time, even if it may look at times like it is fading. No one can control its expression or direction because its joy is unique and will be continually rediscovered. Cheers Davydd
 
Hello everyone. Just wanted to say that in my view, as long as there are kits of any kind, there will be people who want to build them and all for different reasons, but often simply for the challenge of " I wonder if I can." Whether it's lego blocks or paper or timber or plastic or metal, the appeal is the same - the challenge. Building a kit is a bit like a metaphor for life. How do I solve this problem? In doing so we end up with a work of art and a sense of satisfaction before we move on to the next appealing challenge, usually more difficult and thereby get better at it and so it goes. Life generally isn't quite as predictable. Effort does not always equal result. Building a model kit can give a sense of moving forward and it is a fantastic way to pass the time and solve some of the bigger problems of day to day living by clearing our mind in focusing on our latest creative project. Cheers Davydd
 
Let me add my welcome....Marco, I believe that maintaining a successful hobby such as this requires dedicated manufacturers and retailers such as yourself and I believe we as hobbyist need to support your business by purchasing from you even basics as opposed to buying from Amazon, etc. It has to be a 2 way street for the hobby to thrive.

As far as attracting new people, I believe in this day of video, that well produced build videos are the way to go. I had no interest in starting with dumb down kits or a dory or small boat.....sorry, just would not be fun to me. However, when I found the Occre HMS Beagle and saw that there were 2 or 3 step by step videos on youtube, I thought I could do that!!!! Well, 8 months later, a repurposed garage loaded with tons of tools, and 3 kits stacked in dry dock waiting to be built, I am hooked on the hobby. I purposely chose my first 3 models based on the fact that there were step by step build videos available.....this is huge in my opinion. Not only do they give me confidence, they are inspiring to watch.

I already find myself learning and thinking of alternative ways of building than the video....and I assume one day my skills will get to the point of where the videos are not needed, but I would never had tried the hobby if I had not found the videos and knew that I had step by step instruction.......this is the key to overcome the fear of trying. Thanks so much for the people who take the time to create these videos.

Marco, in your position, I would encourage you to produce videos of any model you produce. I would label any model that included step by step build videos. I would either pay or maybe give a free kit to a expert builder in exchange for them producing a video build series, etc. Small 15-30 minute clips from start to finish...not just overviews. The Occre videos are good, but I wish there were verbal instructions instead of just music in the background. I must thank John Aliprantis for his videos.... I understand some may have issues with him or his building style, but I would not have taken up the hobby had I not found his build series of the HMS Beagle. More videos of this nature are the way to get new people......
 
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