Some apparent anomalies in HMS Enterprise kits

[Masters Mate]

Please excuse my intrusion into your build group, however I am scratch building a sister ship, Medea, so I watch this forum as well.

Not knowing where to start back in 2017-18 I went to the Internet and discovered plans of Enterprise, apparently drawn up in (I believe) Poland as a project relating to Master and Commander. They seemed freely available to download so I started there.

From there I found the paintings which you have all seen, depicting Enterprise as a built model.



It should be reasonable to assume that this is an accurate representation of the model. These contemporary models were often built for the King's collection.

NOTE.
The model has a single wheel as appropriate for the period.
There is no hammock netting crane on the breast-rail.

The Polish Plans show both a double wheel and the hammock crane on the breast-rail (side profile only).



The models.
I don't know all the names of the different companies but all the ones I have followed on SOS seem to be CAF or similar.

All that I have noted show both a double wheel and the hammock netting crane on the breast-rail. Examples are -





I have trawled through Gardner: The Sailing Frigate and have found only one model with a hammock netting crane across the breast rail. This is
SLR0315
"This model is usually catalogued as Amazon (an identity given credence by the figurehead). It certainly shows a remarkable correspondence with the design draught for Williams’ new class, right down to the shape of the rails, and the precise positions of swivel stocks and timberheads. However, it only relates to the first three ordered in 1770-1, as the later ships of 1778 and beyond differed in a number of minor topside details. One intriguing variation from the draught is the model’s inclusion of a bridle port, a feature that seems to have died out completely in post-Slade frigates, only reappearing in the mid-1790s. Note the narrow gangways, fitted below the level of the forecastle and quarterdeck, with their hammock netting cranes; these iron double stanchions normally supported netting into which the tightly rolled hammocks of the crew were stowed, providing limited protection against small-arms fire in battle. There are also four iron yokes for swivel guns on each gangway".



Surprisingly, this model also shows a dual wheel. My next post will explain why this is unlikely, either for Amazon or Enterprise .

Again, I'm trying to draw attention to anomalies which I have discovered in my research, but usually too late for my build to be historically accurate. Some things I can and will correct if my health gives me time....

Kind regards
Ian

 

[AllanKP69]

Ian,
Your research is a joy to see. Thanks for sharing your findings.
Allan

 

[Corsair]

Thank you Ian ! My Modelship Dockyard kit of the HMS Enterprise only provides a single ships wheel, which according to your research is accurate. However, the one they provide is 3D resin printed and has so many supporting structures as to make it difficult to remove from the base without breaking the wheel (I broke 2 grips off of my wheel). However, the wheel they provide has 18 spokes which I don't believe is correct. I believe it should be either 10 or 12 at the most. I'm trying to get an aftermarket ships wheel currently.

My kit does provide for the hammock netting along the breast rail but does not provide for any along the outer railings. Peter Goodwin's book "Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War 1650 - 1850" has an informative section on hammock storage starting on page 211.

Thank you very much for your research and for posting it here !

 

[Masters Mate]

Ian,
Your research is a joy to see. Thanks for sharing your findings.
Allan

I appreciate that Allan. There is so much information out there if you know where to look and you seem to have some fantastic resources. Mine are mostly centered around the career of Admiral Gower and took over 20 years to collect, so obviously a lot of ship related material came to light as I searched. One standout was when he frapped a 64 warship (Isis) with cables through the scuppers to prevent the hull coming apart. He could have preceded the Titanic to the bottom on that return from Newfoundland to Torbay without his knowledge and skill.

 

[Masters Mate]

hank you Ian ! My Modelship Dockyard kit of the HMS Enterprise only provides a single ships wheel, which according to your research is accurate. However, the one they provide is 3D resin printed and has so many supporting structures as to make it difficult to remove from the base without breaking the wheel (I broke 2 grips off of my wheel). However, the wheel they provide has 18 spokes which I don't believe is correct. I believe it should be either 10 or 12 at the most. I'm trying to get an aftermarket ships wheel currently.

My kit does provide for the hammock netting along the breast rail but does not provide for any along the outer railings. Peter Goodwin's book "Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War 1650 - 1850" has an informative section on hammock storage starting on page 211.

Thank you very much for your research and for posting it here !

Thank you Ian ! My Modelship Dockyard kit of the HMS Enterprise only provides a single ships wheel, which according to your research is accurate. However, the one they provide is 3D resin printed and has so many supporting structures as to make it difficult to remove from the base without breaking the wheel (I broke 2 grips off of my wheel). However, the wheel they provide has 18 spokes which I don't believe is correct. I believe it should be either 10 or 12 at the most. I'm trying to get an aftermarket ships wheel currently.

My kit does provide for the hammock netting along the breast rail but does not provide for any along the outer railings. Peter Goodwin's book "Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War 1650 - 1850" has an informative section on hammock storage starting on page 211.

Thank you very much for your research and for posting it here !Thanks Jeff

Thanks Jeff

It's reassuring that your model makers have not followed the trend to have the double wheel. Good luck with your attempts to replace the broken one, but if, in the end, you decide to make one instead, I can steer you to a great Youtube video which demonstrates how to make the double one, which I followed.....version 7 was acceptable. Making it as a single wheel would be much less complicated.

I have so far resisted the urge to remove one set of spokes for authenticity. My excuse is the ship, Medea, I am building as of 1783 had just survived two significant fire fights and captures - one of which was a 64 - and I suspect, with no supporting evidence whatsoever that Medea's wheel was shot away. Any replacement would have had to come from the fleet, which would mostly have had double wheels.

I don't have Goodwin's book but it is curious that your kit doesn't show the hammock cranes outside the railings, especially along the quarterdeck and waist where gun crews relied on the added protection of the rolled hammocks during battle. The quote with the image of the Amazon I posted here gave the details of the rolled hammocks.

I'm following your build with interest. It's going to be a fine model. Congratulations.

 

[Corsair]

Thanks Jeff

It's reassuring that your model makers have not followed the trend to have the double wheel. Good luck with your attempts to replace the broken one, but if, in the end, you decide to make one instead, I can steer you to a great Youtube video which demonstrates how to make the double one, which I followed.....version 7 was acceptable. Making it as a single wheel would be much less complicated.

I have so far resisted the urge to remove one set of spokes for authenticity. My excuse is the ship, Medea, I am building as of 1783 had just survived two significant fire fights and captures - one of which was a 64 - and I suspect, with no supporting evidence whatsoever that Medea's wheel was shot away. Any replacement would have had to come from the fleet, which would mostly have had double wheels.

I don't have Goodwin's book but it is curious that your kit doesn't show the hammock cranes outside the railings, especially along the quarterdeck and waist where gun crews relied on the added protection of the rolled hammocks during battle. The quote with the image of the Amazon I posted here gave the details of the rolled hammocks.

I'm following your build with interest. It's going to be a fine model. Congratulations.

Thanks Ian,

Here is the ships wheel that I ordered:

I got the last one he currently had in stock.
As far as the Hammock cranes, they may consider that part of the masting and rigging kit which is supposed to be released later, or maybe I'll have to make them. Time will tell, but that is still a long way off for me.