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Starter kit?

D

Daaveyboy

Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
13
Points
13

Hello all

I am looking for my first wooden starter kit (over 60 years in plastic) and the

"Vanguard Models" HM Armed Cutter Sherbourne – 1763 is looking like a good one to begin with.

Is it a good company to deal with or is there any other kit makers to consider?
All advice is greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Dave
 
Daaveyboy said:
Hello all

I am looking for my first wooden starter kit (over 60 years in plastic) and the

"Vanguard Models" HM Armed Cutter Sherbourne – 1763 is looking like a good one to begin with.

Is it a good company to deal with or is there any other kit makers to consider?
All advice is greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Dave
Click to expand...
start small. I hope you don't get discouraged it's a great hobby
 
I saw that kit a while ago and said to myself what a pretty little vessel she is.

A quick scan of sites shows that she cost a touch over GBP1500 to build, and to buy a 1/64 size model costs almost a seventh of the full size 1:1 prototype. How times have changed.

J
 
Jim Fortnam said:
I saw that kit a while ago and said to myself what a pretty little vessel she is.

A quick scan of sites shows that she cost a touch over GBP1500 to build, and to buy a 1/64 size model costs almost a seventh of the full size 1:1 prototype. How times have changed.

Just checked the web site and it is only £159.00 to buy.
Click to expand...
 
I have no experience with this kit but judging from the description it looks like a kit for an experienced wooden ship modeler. Might consider something less complex, larger scale, but requiring all the basic skills to complete, Model Shipways Katy for example. Plank on frame, some basic rigging, etc.
 
Ah, you’re a better shopper than I - so it's a tenth of the cost of the real one. Still a stat to make you reel back in amazement.

@Quint is maybe right to be cautious, but I think you need to have a deep desire to build a model in order to keep at it.
Just do a mental audit of your skill set as it applies to producing accurate cuts and precise fitting of small wooden parts, and go slowly. Lots of preparing bits and nothing to see followed by a couple of days of things coming together and suddenly you have a hull or a mainmast or something
And you can be sure there ID huge support here for any questions or uncertainties you may have.

Enjoy!

J
 
If Chris Watton says its a beginner kit, you could trust him.
I think the price for Sherbourne is very good if you consider the quality.
 
Vanguard is a quality kit manufacturer in an industry where in far too many cases "quality kit manufacturer" is an oxymoron. Being a British concern, Vanguard is close to home and in these days of high-priced shipping, crazy taxes, and such, the more of that you can avoid, the better. That said, no matter how many plastic model kits you've built, that experience will not count for much when building a wooden ship model kit, even the simplest of them. As much as the manufacturer's advertising tells you that you can do it, you will be modeling a different world with different materials in a language ("nauticalese") that you likely don't understand, all of which will demand great attention to detail and the application of skills you quite likely don't have. None of which is to say it's not worth trying, but in my experience, the quickest way to lose a hiker on the way up Learning Curve Mountain is to blow a lot of smoke up his arse about how easy it is before he begins the trek.

You get it that you have to begin small. That's the best indicator that you will succeed. The U.S. firm, Model Shipways, has a series of three progressively more complicated models purposefully designed to teach basic skills provide experience in a progressive manner. The set of model kits, which can be purchased all at once or individually, are priced very reasonably (apparently being a bit of a loss leader to get you hooked,) and they even have some sort of incentive program to keep you going where if you send them a picture of your completed model, they'll credit the original price of it to the purchase of your next one. There are lots of YouTube videos on this set, as well, which many find very helpful. When the kits are assembled, they produce very nice models. See: https://www.modelexpo-online.com/pr...-3-kit-combo-series-with-tools-glue-and-paint (I recommend you only purchase the kits individually and don't pay a premium to get "paint and tools included." Their paint isn't the best and their tools are unnecessary. Only buy tools when you need them and never in a "set" that somebody else whose looking to make money off of you has piced out for you. If the "package" with tools pencils out that the tools and paint cost you nothing, go for it, but otherwise you're better off buying the paint and tools you've selected yourself.)

Whatever kit you may be interested in, the quality kits will have copies of their instructions posted on their models' advertising pages in PDF format. Before buying a kit, study the instructions and review the "build logs" for that kit in the online forums. Every kit manufacturer has a beautiful photo of their models on the box and in the ads, and it was built by the very best professional modeler they could hire to build it. That's a picture of what your finished model could look like if you had the skills and resources their professional modeler did. Only if you study and can understand the instructions can you be relatively sure you've fully assessed the model. Until you see them, you will not believe how terribly inadequate the instructions for many model kits can be. This is especially so with any instructions translated from an original language you don't speak. Nearly every kit has "problems," if not outright glaring errors and near-fatal defects. Nobody's perfect and the more complex things get, the more imperfect things get. Ship model kits are rarely simple things. Read the instructions. Here are links to the instructions on the Model Shipways "Shipwright 3-kit-combo series:"


When you've enjoyably worked your way through these three instructional "model by numbers" kits, you might even end up saying, "Why should I spend the kind of money these kit companies charge for their "model by numbers" kits? I'm going to just "go over to the Dark Side" and build my next models from scratch using readily available plans.
 
Last edited:
Many thanks Bob for this detailed reply, I think I am swayed towards the Vanguard HM Armed Cutter Sherbourne – 1763 it gets good reviews, there is a full build on YouTube to help me, a comprehensive full colour instruction manual & it has free UK shipping and is only £159.00 and is classed as a Novice build.
Once again many thanks.
 
I started building my first model ship a year ago, no previous experience, and I started with an OcCre starter kit the POLARIS, just over £100 and that taught me a lot about plank on frame building. I made many mistakes and had lots of useful helpful advice from the many experts on here. Because of the mistakes, pointed out on here I had to remove and replace a few bits. All good though.
I take more time now than I did then.
The end result was pleasing to my eye and I then decided to build a wooden plane, Artesania Latinas Sopwith Camel, its still built with wood and now I am part way in building OcCre,s The Black Swan, this is more difficult than the Polaris.
Please just take your time and don’t start off with a ship thats classed for experienced builders. Heed the advice and ask as many questions as you want.
These guys give their advice willingly.
My first build

IMG_3845.jpeg
 
Daaveyboy said:
Many thanks Bob for this detailed reply, I think I am swayed towards the Vanguard HM Armed Cutter Sherbourne – 1763 it gets good reviews, there is a full build on YouTube to help me, a comprehensive full colour instruction manual & it has free UK shipping and is only £159.00 and is classed as a Novice build.
Once again many thanks.
Click to expand...
I strongly recommend Bob Cleek's bit of advice. The model expo 3 ship series can be bought individually. If you build the Dory and send a picture of you holding it built they will give you full credit towards your next build. I can not think of a better way to learn. I do not know what the situation purchasing one of them in Great Britain is, But I think you should definitely start on something simpler.I have been doing plastic models for many years and can tell you from my few years of experience wooden ships are certainly a different beast.

That being said we are all here to help each other and I have learned much from the advice I have garnered here. Build logs and you tube videos are invaluable.

Welcome aboard from Connecticut!

Rob
 
Daaveyboy said:
Many thanks Bob for this detailed reply, I think I am swayed towards the Vanguard HM Armed Cutter Sherbourne – 1763 it gets good reviews, there is a full build on YouTube to help me, a comprehensive full colour instruction manual & it has free UK shipping and is only £159.00 and is classed as a Novice build.
Once again many thanks.
Click to expand...
AllanKP69 said:
Bob's advice on the three kit series is a great way to go as there is a lot to learn, including the basics from planking and much more. Vanguard manufactures a nice kit to be sure, but you may get frustrated.
Allan
Click to expand...

I realize that I may be "flogging the poodle" as it appears you are smitten by Vanguard's Sherbourne kit, but I feel compelled to put a finer point on my previous comments. While Vanguard produces high quality kits with excellent instructions, those assessments are relative, being made in comparison to the current ship model kit market offerings in general. My opinion in that regard accepted as a given the many concerns the hobby in general has with the present-day selection of available ship model kits (which is for our purposes at the moment "a story for another night.") The quality of today's ship model kits is dictated in significant measure by a variety of inhibiting factors, including but not limited to, raw materials availability and costs, and shipping, sales tax, and tariff expenses which affect the size, shape, and weight of packaging contents. All of these factors additionally tend to dictate the engineering parameters of today's kit models.

Even more critically, the somewhat unique economics of the obviously "niche market" ship model kit industry demand that its products attract the largest possible customer base. When you hear the often-repeated exhortation, "We need more ship modelers.", "buyer beware!" ;) Ship model kits are a good thing in concept, but the "novice" consumer must recognize that in addition to the fact that in large measure, profitability is dependent upon keeping production costs as low as possible, the more kits are sold to a customer, the less likely the customer will be to buy another one, so in order to remain profitable, new customers who lack the experience and skills to build the kits must be continually recruited. In short, the ship model kit business depends a lot more on the "sizzle" than it does the "steak."

Every ship model kit manufacturer faces two marketing contradictions which must be overcome if it is to survive. The first inherent challenge is the simple fact that, although there are those who enjoy assembling kits as a hobby in and of itself and will happily do so for a good long time, (a pursuit analogous to assembling plastic kits,) it is a natural progression that as "wooden sticks and strings" kit ship modelers naturally acquire knowledge and skills in the course of their builds, they tend to transcend the kit assembler's initial dependence on kits entirely and graduate to building original and unique models of subjects of their own choice from plans purchased or developed from their own independent research, thereby ending the prospects of their buying any more ship model kits. The second inherent challenge the kit model industry faces is that in order to continue to build and maintain their customer base, they must continually recruit "novice" ship modelers who are in large measure inexperienced and unskilled in the wide range of craft skills required to build even a kit. Consequently, the market for ship model kits is what a marketing specialist would call "aspirational." In other words, in order to sell the product, it has to promise to give the buyer some status the buyer aspires to attain. Now, building a model ship is not rocket science, but does involve a lot of other esoteric historical knowledge and a wide range of craft skills, woodworking, jewelry making, sheet metal work, drafting, surgical instrument knot tying, and fine wood finishing, to name but a few. Most are mastered with relative ease, if patiently and persistently pursued. All anybody needs to know is in any number of books, and now online videos on these subjects. However, most first-time ship model kit purchases are impulsive, regardless of how long it may take the buyer to make their selection. The "novice" kit buyer is usually nowhere near able to judge whether a kit is within their capabilities because they've never tried to build one before. It often seems that the majority of first-time ship model kit buyers revert to six-year-olds on Santa's lap, wanting the "biggest one" which is, of course, the farthest beyond the outer limits of their abilities. Consequently, many Victories and Constitutions are sold, but few are finished. Which is just fine with the kit manufacturers, but not so good for the "novice" kit buyers who abandon their expensive model kits in frustration and never get a fair chance at further pursuing what could have been a most rewarding hobby.

Now, it appears to me from a review of the instructions that what Vanguard has done with their Sherbourne kit is to attempt to create a ship model kit with very accurately laser cut wooden parts, metal castings and photo-etch, as well as perhaps some 3D printed plastic parts, which as closely as possible replicates in those prefabricated parts the process and experience of building a plastic model kit, i.e., the kit is a collection of accurately pre-cut parts designed for simple assembly per instructions minimizing to the greatest extent possible the need for fabrication or fitting. In other works, a "wooden" ship model kit that works like a plastic model kit. That's a very smart thing to try to do if you are looking to sell your kits as "easy to build," which is, as explained above, the threshold stumbling block the salesman has to overcome if he's going to sell any model kits at all. I think Vanguard has made a fairly good attempt in that direction and I expect this model is easier to build the way Vanguard has designed it, if the goal is to make plastic modelers comfortable with buying it. The laser-accurate cutting of parts alone eliminates one of more common pitfalls of "novices" sawing along printed lines to get parts out of sheet stock (if you don't mind the endless nasty mess of sanding the black charcoal "laser char" created by the laser burning of the edge of each part before use.) Of course, while that approach may make building the kit "easier," it doesn't make it "easy" because wood isn't plastic by a long shot. Vanguard's Sherbourne is a standard "double plank on bulkhead" wooden ship model and one need look no further than the instruction book to see that it is no less complex or demanding than any other model hull of its class. In fact, it's double planking on particle board bulkheads is the most labor-intensive method of constructing a hull of all and literally screams out to be in a kit that provides a pre-carved solid hull or stack of precut waterline "lifts" to be stacked up, glued, and faired by the builder. When you look at an instruction manual and see a picture that looks like this,

1765415973700.png

you're looking at wood that doesn't want to be where you need to put it and, while it can be done, it's not what I'd call "novice" level work. I'm not saying it's a bad kit. I've said I think it's a pretty good kit, although as a scratch builder, I'd definitely build the same hull quite differently, but I don't have to worry about the cost of machine carving, packaging and shipping the box, or selling it as a kit to anybody.

While again a purely subjective opinion, with over fifty years of ship modeling experience under my belt, I would not characterize Vanguard's Sherbourne kit as one I would ever advise a "novice"' to tackle as a first wooden ship kit build. The difference between my assessment and Vanguard's own expressed in their advertising is probably the result of my perspective as a modeler who was once a novice at it and Vanguard's perspective as a ship model kit manufacturer who is in the business of selling ship model kits to "novices."

If you've got your heart set on Sherbourne, well and good. But I see you doing far better justice to it as a third or fourth kit, after you've built at least the Norwegian Pram and the Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack from the Model Shipways instructional series. Those two or three models will give you the opportunity to learn how to do much of what Sherbourne will then later demand of you. At least, after planking the lobster smack you'll know what decent planking stock looks like, and how to lay out, spile, and hang single plank correctly with a lot less work and a lot more satisfaction than what Vanguard's design involves. You'll also be able to acquire quality examples of the tools you'll require along the way and not get stuck paying for the "turkeys" in Vanguard's "package deal" selection.

You don't have to "jump into the deep end of the pool" right at the start to learn how to build ship models. Most of the guys in this forum has been building ship models, kits or scratch-built, for decades. Nobody's going to steer you wrong. Trust what you hear from the modelers in here and realize it's a lot better information than what you'll read in any kit manufacturer's advertising copy. Not that kit manufacturers are necessarily bad guys at all but just don't forget what's in their rice bowl when you're dealing with them.
 
Last edited:
Rob444 said:
I strongly recommend Bob Cleek's bit of advice. The model expo 3 ship series can be bought individually. If you build the Dory and send a picture of you holding it built they will give you full credit towards your next build. I can not think of a better way to learn. I do not know what the situation purchasing one of them in Great Britain is, But I think you should definitely start on something simpler.I have been doing plastic models for many years and can tell you from my few years of experience wooden ships are certainly a different beast.

That being said we are all here to help each other and I have learned much from the advice I have garnered here. Build logs and you tube videos are invaluable.

Welcome aboard from Connecticut!

Rob
Click to expand...
Bob Cleek said:
I realize that I may be "flogging the poodle" as it appears you are smitten by Vanguard's Sherbourne kit, but I feel compelled to put a finer point on my previous comments. While Vanguard produces high quality kits with excellent instructions, those assessments are relative, being made in comparison to the current ship model kit market offerings in general. My opinion in that regard accepted as a given the many concerns the hobby in general has with the present-day selection of available ship model kits (which is for our purposes at the moment "a story for another night.") The quality of today's ship model kits is dictated in significant measure by a variety of inhibiting factors, including but not limited to, raw materials availability and costs, and shipping, sales tax, and tariff expenses which affect the size, shape, and weight of packaging contents. All of these factors additionally tend to dictate the engineering parameters of today's kit models.

Even more critically, the somewhat unique economics of the obviously "niche market" ship model kit industry demand that its products attract the largest possible customer base. When you hear the often-repeated exhortation, "We need more ship modelers.", "buyer beware!" ;) Ship model kits are a good thing in concept, but the "novice" consumer must recognize that in addition to the fact that in large measure, profitability is dependent upon keeping production costs as low as possible, the more kits are sold to a customer, the less likely the customer will be to buy another one, so in order to remain profitable, new customers who lack the experience and skills to build the kits must be continually recruited. In short, the ship model kit business depends a lot more on the "sizzle" than it does the "steak."

Every ship model kit manufacturer faces two marketing contradictions which must be overcome if it is to survive. The first inherent challenge is the simple fact that, although there are those who enjoy assembling kits as a hobby in and of itself and will happily do so for a good long time, (a pursuit analogous to assembling plastic kits,) it is a natural progression that as "wooden sticks and strings" kit ship modelers naturally acquire knowledge and skills in the course of their builds, they tend to transcend the kit assembler's initial dependence on kits entirely and graduate to building original and unique models of subjects of their own choice from plans purchased or developed from their own independent research, thereby ending the prospects of their buying any more ship model kits. The second inherent challenge the kit model industry faces is that in order to continue to build and maintain their customer base, they must continually recruit "novice" ship modelers who are in large measure inexperienced and unskilled in the wide range of craft skills required to build even a kit. Consequently, the market for ship model kits is what a marketing specialist would call "aspirational." In other words, in order to sell the product, it has to promise to give the buyer some status the buyer aspires to attain. Now, building a model ship is not rocket science, but does involve a lot of other esoteric historical knowledge and a wide range of craft skills, woodworking, jewelry making, sheet metal work, drafting, surgical instrument knot tying, and fine wood finishing, to name but a few. Most are mastered with relative ease, if patiently and persistently pursued. All anybody needs to know is in any number of books, and now online videos on these subjects. However, most first-time ship model kit purchases are impulsive, regardless of how long it may take the buyer to make their selection. The "novice" kit buyer is usually nowhere near able to judge whether a kit is within their capabilities because they've never tried to build one before. It often seems that the majority of first-time ship model kit buyers revert to six-year-olds on Santa's lap, wanting the "biggest one" which is, of course, the farthest beyond the outer limits of their abilities. Consequently, many Victories and Constitutions are sold, but few are finished. Which is just fine with the kit manufacturers, but not so good for the "novice" kit buyers who abandon their expensive model kits in frustration and never get a fair chance at further pursuing what could have been a most rewarding hobby.

Now, it appears to me from a review of the instructions that what Vanguard has done with their Sherbourne kit is to attempt to create a ship model kit with very accurately laser cut wooden parts, metal castings and photo-etch, as well as perhaps some 3D printed plastic parts, which as closely as possible replicates in those prefabricated parts the process and experience of building a plastic model kit, i.e., the kit is a collection of accurately pre-cut parts designed for simple assembly per instructions minimizing to the greatest extent possible the need for fabrication or fitting. In other works, a "wooden" ship model kit that works like a plastic model kit. That's a very smart thing to try to do if you are looking to sell your kits as "easy to build," which is, as explained above, the threshold stumbling block the salesman has to overcome if he's going to sell any model kits at all. I think Vanguard has made a fairly good attempt in that direction and I expect this model is easier to build the way Vanguard has designed it, if the goal is to make plastic modelers comfortable with buying it. The laser-accurate cutting of parts alone eliminates one of more common pitfalls of "novices" sawing along printed lines to get parts out of sheet stock (if you don't mind the endless nasty mess of sanding the black charcoal "laser char" created by the laser burning of the edge of each part before use.) Of course, while that approach may make building the kit "easier," it doesn't make it "easy" because wood isn't plastic by a long shot. Vanguard's Sherbourne is a standard "double plank on bulkhead" wooden ship model and one need look no further than the instruction book to see that it is no less complex or demanding than any other model hull of its class. In fact, it's double planking on particle board bulkheads is the most labor-intensive method of constructing a hull of all and literally screams out to be in a kit that provides a pre-carved solid hull or stack of precut waterline "lifts" to be stacked up, glued, and faired by the builder. When you look at an instruction manual and see a picture that looks like this,

View attachment 562935

you're looking at wood that doesn't want to be where you need to put it and, while it can be done, it's not what I'd call "novice" level work. I'm not saying it's a bad kit. I've said I think it's a pretty good kit, although as a scratch builder, I'd definitely build the same hull quite differently, but I don't have to worry about the cost of machine carving, packaging and shipping the box, or selling it as a kit to anybody.

While again a purely subjective opinion, with over fifty years of ship modeling experience under my belt, I would not characterize Vanguard's Sherbourne kit as one I would ever advise a "novice"' to tackle as a first wooden ship kit build. The difference between my assessment and Vanguard's own expressed in their advertising is probably the result of my perspective as a modeler who was once a novice at it and Vanguard's perspective as a ship model kit manufacturer who is in the business of selling ship model kits to "novices."

If you've got your heart set on Sherbourne, well and good. But I see you doing far better justice to it as a third or fourth kit, after you've built at least the Norwegian Pram and the Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack from the Model Shipways instructional series. Those two or three models will give you the opportunity to learn how to do much of what Sherbourne will then later demand of you. At least, after planking the lobster smack you'll know what decent planking stock looks like, and how to lay out, spile, and hang single plank correctly with a lot less work and a lot more satisfaction than what Vanguard's design involves. You'll also be able to acquire quality examples of the tools you'll require along the way and not get stuck paying for the "turkeys" in Vanguard's "package deal" selection.

You don't have to "jump into the deep end of the pool" right at the start to learn how to build ship models. Most of the guys in this forum has been building ship models, kits or scratch-built, for decades. Nobody's going to steer you wrong. Trust what you hear from the modelers in here and realize it's a lot better information than what you'll read in any kit manufacturer's advertising copy. Not that kit manufacturers are necessarily bad guys at all but just don't forget what's in their rice bowl when you're dealing with them.
Click to expand...
Just ordered the Model Shipways 3 Kit Combo, should get it next week, Many thanks for your advice Bob
 
Bob Cleek said:
I realize that I may be "flogging the poodle" as it appears you are smitten by Vanguard's Sherbourne kit, but I feel compelled to put a finer point on my previous comments. While Vanguard produces high quality kits with excellent instructions, those assessments are relative, being made in comparison to the current ship model kit market offerings in general. My opinion in that regard accepted as a given the many concerns the hobby in general has with the present-day selection of available ship model kits (which is for our purposes at the moment "a story for another night.") The quality of today's ship model kits is dictated in significant measure by a variety of inhibiting factors, including but not limited to, raw materials availability and costs, and shipping, sales tax, and tariff expenses which affect the size, shape, and weight of packaging contents. All of these factors additionally tend to dictate the engineering parameters of today's kit models.

Even more critically, the somewhat unique economics of the obviously "niche market" ship model kit industry demand that its products attract the largest possible customer base. When you hear the often-repeated exhortation, "We need more ship modelers.", "buyer beware!" ;) Ship model kits are a good thing in concept, but the "novice" consumer must recognize that in addition to the fact that in large measure, profitability is dependent upon keeping production costs as low as possible, the more kits are sold to a customer, the less likely the customer will be to buy another one, so in order to remain profitable, new customers who lack the experience and skills to build the kits must be continually recruited. In short, the ship model kit business depends a lot more on the "sizzle" than it does the "steak."

Every ship model kit manufacturer faces two marketing contradictions which must be overcome if it is to survive. The first inherent challenge is the simple fact that, although there are those who enjoy assembling kits as a hobby in and of itself and will happily do so for a good long time, (a pursuit analogous to assembling plastic kits,) it is a natural progression that as "wooden sticks and strings" kit ship modelers naturally acquire knowledge and skills in the course of their builds, they tend to transcend the kit assembler's initial dependence on kits entirely and graduate to building original and unique models of subjects of their own choice from plans purchased or developed from their own independent research, thereby ending the prospects of their buying any more ship model kits. The second inherent challenge the kit model industry faces is that in order to continue to build and maintain their customer base, they must continually recruit "novice" ship modelers who are in large measure inexperienced and unskilled in the wide range of craft skills required to build even a kit. Consequently, the market for ship model kits is what a marketing specialist would call "aspirational." In other words, in order to sell the product, it has to promise to give the buyer some status the buyer aspires to attain. Now, building a model ship is not rocket science, but does involve a lot of other esoteric historical knowledge and a wide range of craft skills, woodworking, jewelry making, sheet metal work, drafting, surgical instrument knot tying, and fine wood finishing, to name but a few. Most are mastered with relative ease, if patiently and persistently pursued. All anybody needs to know is in any number of books, and now online videos on these subjects. However, most first-time ship model kit purchases are impulsive, regardless of how long it may take the buyer to make their selection. The "novice" kit buyer is usually nowhere near able to judge whether a kit is within their capabilities because they've never tried to build one before. It often seems that the majority of first-time ship model kit buyers revert to six-year-olds on Santa's lap, wanting the "biggest one" which is, of course, the farthest beyond the outer limits of their abilities. Consequently, many Victories and Constitutions are sold, but few are finished. Which is just fine with the kit manufacturers, but not so good for the "novice" kit buyers who abandon their expensive model kits in frustration and never get a fair chance at further pursuing what could have been a most rewarding hobby.

Now, it appears to me from a review of the instructions that what Vanguard has done with their Sherbourne kit is to attempt to create a ship model kit with very accurately laser cut wooden parts, metal castings and photo-etch, as well as perhaps some 3D printed plastic parts, which as closely as possible replicates in those prefabricated parts the process and experience of building a plastic model kit, i.e., the kit is a collection of accurately pre-cut parts designed for simple assembly per instructions minimizing to the greatest extent possible the need for fabrication or fitting. In other works, a "wooden" ship model kit that works like a plastic model kit. That's a very smart thing to try to do if you are looking to sell your kits as "easy to build," which is, as explained above, the threshold stumbling block the salesman has to overcome if he's going to sell any model kits at all. I think Vanguard has made a fairly good attempt in that direction and I expect this model is easier to build the way Vanguard has designed it, if the goal is to make plastic modelers comfortable with buying it. The laser-accurate cutting of parts alone eliminates one of more common pitfalls of "novices" sawing along printed lines to get parts out of sheet stock (if you don't mind the endless nasty mess of sanding the black charcoal "laser char" created by the laser burning of the edge of each part before use.) Of course, while that approach may make building the kit "easier," it doesn't make it "easy" because wood isn't plastic by a long shot. Vanguard's Sherbourne is a standard "double plank on bulkhead" wooden ship model and one need look no further than the instruction book to see that it is no less complex or demanding than any other model hull of its class. In fact, it's double planking on particle board bulkheads is the most labor-intensive method of constructing a hull of all and literally screams out to be in a kit that provides a pre-carved solid hull or stack of precut waterline "lifts" to be stacked up, glued, and faired by the builder. When you look at an instruction manual and see a picture that looks like this,

View attachment 562935

you're looking at wood that doesn't want to be where you need to put it and, while it can be done, it's not what I'd call "novice" level work. I'm not saying it's a bad kit. I've said I think it's a pretty good kit, although as a scratch builder, I'd definitely build the same hull quite differently, but I don't have to worry about the cost of machine carving, packaging and shipping the box, or selling it as a kit to anybody.

While again a purely subjective opinion, with over fifty years of ship modeling experience under my belt, I would not characterize Vanguard's Sherbourne kit as one I would ever advise a "novice"' to tackle as a first wooden ship kit build. The difference between my assessment and Vanguard's own expressed in their advertising is probably the result of my perspective as a modeler who was once a novice at it and Vanguard's perspective as a ship model kit manufacturer who is in the business of selling ship model kits to "novices."

If you've got your heart set on Sherbourne, well and good. But I see you doing far better justice to it as a third or fourth kit, after you've built at least the Norwegian Pram and the Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack from the Model Shipways instructional series. Those two or three models will give you the opportunity to learn how to do much of what Sherbourne will then later demand of you. At least, after planking the lobster smack you'll know what decent planking stock looks like, and how to lay out, spile, and hang single plank correctly with a lot less work and a lot more satisfaction than what Vanguard's design involves. You'll also be able to acquire quality examples of the tools you'll require along the way and not get stuck paying for the "turkeys" in Vanguard's "package deal" selection.

You don't have to "jump into the deep end of the pool" right at the start to learn how to build ship models. Most of the guys in this forum has been building ship models, kits or scratch-built, for decades. Nobody's going to steer you wrong. Trust what you hear from the modelers in here and realize it's a lot better information than what you'll read in any kit manufacturer's advertising copy. Not that kit manufacturers are necessarily bad guys at all but just don't forget what's in their rice bowl when you're dealing with them.
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Just ordered the Model Shipways 3 Kit Combo, should get it next week, Many thanks for your advice Bob
 
Daaveyboy said:
Many thanks for your advice Bob
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Bob has done right by ya.
Some reinforcements:
Each project is not one big one, It is a lot of mini projects and fabrications. It is not one big mountain to climb at one go. It is easy daily increments.
Every large vessel carried boats - you will be learning boat making skills that will carry over to any other project.
If you do not have it already get a copy of Understanding Wood Finishing by Bob Flexner it should come as part of every first kit.
See if you can find the posts here about scale effect.
It is better for your budget if you do the opposite of what I do, and not buy a any tool on spec in case you might need it. It is probably best to wait until you know that you need it.
 
You can't go wrong with Vanguard because Chris Watton's models are top notch in quality. I really wish Chris would create some 17th century models for those of us still stuck in the 1600's. Armed Cutter Sherbourne is a quality kit and a great start for someone not new to modeling but new to wood models.
 
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