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Discussion The Cost of Kit vs Scratch Build: A Real Divide or Just Perspective?

As Roger, I don't have much interest in 3D printing and CAD, other than in passing, because archaic manual fabrication and drafting continue to serve my purposes well and, while perhaps erroneously, but nonetheless, I consider the plastic products of 3D casting archivally suspect. Then also, my definition of scratch ship modeling as art considers such duplication technology to be unsportsmanlike. I personally don't find a 17th Century man of war encrusted with gold painted plastic gingerbread appliques a particularly impressive example of the traditional fine art of ship modeling. I suppose it won't be until the passing of the last person alive who remembers a pre-digital world that digital art will have any chance of being fully respected, but I'm good with that. Call me an elitist snob, but don't confuse me with somebody who gives a damn what you think. Now get off my lawn! :p
 
My question is
To which category belongs a model builder who starts with a kit (even with a high priced ones) and the delivered accessories are actually massproduction and not specific for that ship (scale l,type etc) and has to produce them by himself to improve and to make the model as authentic as possible ?
(Actually for his own satisfaction and pleasure)
 
Korsan said:
My question is
To which category belongs a model builder who starts with a kit (even with a high priced ones) and the delivered accessories are actually massproduction and not specific for that ship (scale l,type etc) and has to produce them by himself to improve and to make the model as authentic as possible ?
(Actually for his own satisfaction and pleasure)
Click to expand...
I like the premise of your question; we are all modelers. Again, I have the utmost respect for all scratch builders however I wonder if one can truly be considered a scratch builder if that modeler uses someone else's plans to fashion their raw wood, plastic, metal etc. to build their projects. Now if you can design your own vessel weather by pencil and paper or CAD then take raw materials and go to work, well now you have a category that may just better describe a scratch build. For some reason this discussion tugs on my philosophical side.
 
I like the premise of your question; we are all modelers. Again, I have the utmost respect for all scratch builders however I wonder if one can truly be considered a scratch builder if that modeler uses someone else's plans to fashion their raw wood, plastic, metal etc. to build their projects. Now if you can design your own vessel weather by pencil and paper or CAD then take raw materials and go to work, well now you have a category that may just better describe a scratch build. For some reason this discussion tugs on my philosophical side.

maybe i can shed a little light on your philosophical side. To begin all modeling and model engineering have their own rules and definitions. Take model aviation as an example There is an article in the AMA mag. that defines a scratch build as one where the builder is also the original designer. If you build a model from someone else's plans, then the model is a "plans build" rather than a "scratch" build.

For years i was a judge for a model ship competition and the rules were set up by a committee for the museums. It is not possible to model a historic ship unless you're starting from the original set of plans. unlike the AMA where the builder is also the designer. All ship plans are basic information and usually do not have construction details. So a scratch builder is starting from a design concept and filling in all the missing information, that is scratch building. Now if a builder starts with a set of modeling plans done by someone else than that builder "scratch built the model from plans" All the finer details are filled in which removes the "creative artistic vision" BUT the actual model is still scratch built if every part was fabricated by the builder.

SCRATCH-BUILDING IS WHEN a full-scale set of drawings are scaled down to whatever size that you want. The structure is drawn, and then the parts are cut and assembled. When you build from someone else’s plans, you are plans-building. Someone else designed the model but you are scratch building the model itself. If you start with all of the parts cut out for you, you are kit-building. If you buy it and only assemble the main parts, that’s kit bashing. It’s that simple.
Scratch building is the pinnacle of scale modeling artistry, allowing modelers to create unique pieces from raw materials. This technique offers unparalleled creative freedom, enabling enthusiasts to bring their visions to life without the constraints of pre-made kits. Whether recreating historical artifacts or designing futuristic concepts, scratch building opens a world of possibilities for skilled modelers.
 
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Well Dave I can certainly see where one would need a well-defined set of rules and definitions when hosting a model ship competition. I appreciate your effort to shed light on my philosophical musings.
 
It's good that we have experts here who can describe things as they are. Whether you have certain skills or not, you choose the construction method that gives you the most pleasure. For some, it's a construction kit, and for others, it's a pile of wood. Skills or not, it doesn't matter. We do this because we want to build models and enjoy it in the way that suits us best. Whether you saw a table into small pieces and turn it into a ship or something similar, or whether you build a kit according to the instructions or add or change a lot of things, or you use a 3D printer or CNC, it doesn't matter. AS LONG AS YOU ENJOY IT AND HAVE FUN.
 
Scratch building is the pinnacle of scale modeling artistry, allowing modelers to create unique pieces from raw materials. This technique offers unparalleled creative freedom, enabling enthusiasts to bring their visions to life without the constraints of pre-made kits. Whether recreating historical artifacts or designing futuristic concepts, scratch building opens a world of possibilities for skilled modelers.
Imho the expression skilled modeler should not be reserved only for scratch builder.The Skill of a modeler cannot be judged whether he builds from scratch or kit or whatever.The final product decisive
 
My present project is the Great Lakes freighter Benjamin Noble. I consider it a scratch build for the following reasons.

Drawings: I am using the original builders drawings. Since this is a steel hulled vessel the drawings are much more detailed than say those for a 1700’s sailing warship.

Hull lines: These were lofted by me at the correct model scale using the table of offsets originally sent by the design office to the shipyard’s mould loft.

Details: like almost all ship model projects it is necessary to reconstruct some details. Where possible I am using an old catalog from the vessel’s builder, The American Shipbuilding Company. This is available here on SOS via a post by Dave Stevens. In most cases it is necessary to reverse engineer the photos to work out the geometry.

The Build: I make all everything myself except chain and cordage. Fittings are made from soldered brass. Where appropriate I do use some semi finished materials; mainly round, square, and rectangular brass tubing. I will also use some old brass belaying pins, beautifully machined to the models 1:96 scale 80+ years ago.

The downside- Snail like progress!
Roger
 
Korsan said:
My question is
To which category belongs a model builder who starts with a kit (even with a high priced ones) and the delivered accessories are actually massproduction and not specific for that ship (scale l,type etc) and has to produce them by himself to improve and to make the model as authentic as possible ?
(Actually for his own satisfaction and pleasure)
Click to expand...

Well, if the doing of it results in his own satisfaction and pleasure, I'd call him lucky and consider his time well spent. If, on the other hand, the criterion is the intrinsic value of the model itself, aside from the builder's own satisfaction and pleasure, I'd call him a victim of crass commercialization, if not outright fraudulent deceptive marketing. No doubt the model wasn't inexpensive and was loudly touted as "museum quality," etc., etc., when, in fact, it wasn't any of that. From a monetary value standpoint, a lot of work went into producing what was no doubt a better executed model than what was possible "out of the box," but the model will still have little or no market value because it is one of many produced from that kit. Some would call this "kit bashing," but, as that term is understood by my neighbors and friends who worked for George Lucas at Industrial Light and Magic back in the late seventies and early eighties building the Star Wars props, "kit bashing" means taking parts from many kits and using them to create a model entirely unrelated to the subjects of the source kits, such as the surface detail of the Death Star or the Millenium Falcon from hundreds of military armor plastic kits.

(Note the three turret-less tank decks on the table.)
1757457039613.png

Replacing defective parts, embellishing with additional detail, or correcting inaccuracies in poorly designed kit models isn't kit bashing. It's better known as "polishing a turd."

The modeler in the above post is perhaps best described as being, or about to become, a scratch builder who experienced an "epiphany" when, as a kit builder, he had an "ah-ha!" moment realizing that he could have just as easily built the rest of the whole damn model from scratch as well and bought himself a Byrnes table saw and disk and thickness sanders with the savings.
 
Korsan said:
Imho the expression skilled modeler should not be reserved only for scratch builder.The Skill of a modeler cannot be judged whether he builds from scratch or kit or whatever. The final product decisive
Click to expand...

Semantic distinctions are important to the overall estimation of a "modeler's" overall stature. Technical skill is a measure of craftsmanship, which is only one factor in the evaluation. A technically accomplished modeler can produce a technically outstanding model from a kit, but it does not necessarily follow that a technically accomplished modeler can produce a scratch-build model at all. The outstanding scratch-built model, depending upon the scope of the definition of "from scratch," will require competence in historical research, full-scale ship building knowledge, drafting and lofting, materials application, and related design, engineering and construction know-how.
 
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