Throat seizing

Don Case

Don Case

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I'm having great difficulty getting my shrouds the right length. I've looked at a few videos and build alongs and I'm starting to wonder if it's me trying to use throat seizings that's messing me up. I haven't seen anyone mention throat seizing. When you guys are seizing the deadeyes do you use throat seizings or something else? Because I can't hold everything in it's final position while doing the throat seizing I lose some contriol/all of the shroud and the length changes from time to time. I've been fighting with these things for a few days now so any help would be appreciated.

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I think his post shows doing the siezing of the loop around the deadeye before you put the deadeye in, then you adjust length of shroud line and pull siezing tight to complete the lower knot. You may be able to do both siezing with careful planning.
 
Very good video. That helped a lot. I'll see if I can use Thanasis' method but it looks like a lot of the time the seizing has to go inside a loop and you wouldn't be able to use it. We'll see :) . One thing I noticed on the videos is that when these people put the end of a thread through a loop the thread actually stays there. I put a thread through a loop or needle eye and then reposition my hands and the thread falls out. I spend more time putting thread back in loops than anything else. Oh, that and picking up needles and tweezers that I dropped:). Hopefully things will improve.
Would anyone happen to know what kind of thread Kudin uses. I'm using polyester and when I try to get rid of tag ends and fuzz there is a good chance my serving melts. A real pain on the first shroud that's fully served.:)
I suppose these are problems that everyone goes through.
Thanks
 
I use a small alligator clip to hold the rope. No knot. Works in case of smaller ropes better. He is using polyester rope because he gave it also a heat treatment and makes eyes and ring splicing with the rope, with cotton that is almost impossible to do on a small scale.
I use a lighter to get rid of the tag ends and fuzz. Not the flame, but I light the lighter a moment, long enough to make the iron around the flame hot and use that iron of the lighter to get rid of the fuzz.
 
Don Case said:
I'm having great difficulty getting my shrouds the right length. I've looked at a few videos and build alongs and I'm starting to wonder if it's me trying to use throat seizings that's messing me up. I haven't seen anyone mention throat seizing. When you guys are seizing the deadeyes do you use throat seizings or something else? Because I can't hold everything in it's final position while doing the throat seizing I lose some contriol/all of the shroud and the length changes from time to time. I've been fighting with these things for a few days now so any help would be appreciated.

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I first serve (seize) the center of the shroud then lace it through the throat, leaving each end longer than necessary. The next step is to insure the deadeyes are at the same level with a brass wire clip to old the deadeyes while I wound the shroud around it. I use an alligator clip or small hemostat to hold the line while I tie/serve the ends above the deadeyes. 20210802_123624.jpg20210807_123613.jpg20210821_120146.jpg20210816_134002.jpg
 
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It's up to you...What I'm saying, is that you could use my way to make all the seizings.
You can form a throat seizing by passing the thread at opposite directions. Then you can form the upper seizings.
Thx
 
Hi Don, my solution was to glue the rope to the groove in the deadeye before attempting the seizing. I used CA for this so it only takes a minute. By doing this the length of the shroud is set (temporarily using an alligator clip as Stephan suggested) and I wasn't trying to hold everything in position while creating the rather difficult seizing.

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Are you guys doing the seizing on the ship? I tried that once and ended up in such a tangle that I abandoned it. I've been taking the shroud off and putting it in a jig to do the seizing. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.
 
Don Case said:
Are you guys doing the seizing on the ship? I tried that once and ended up in such a tangle that I abandoned it. I've been taking the shroud off and putting it in a jig to do the seizing. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.
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As for me - the shroud is decidedly on the ship.

With the shroud fixed to the mast at the top and the two deadeyes separated by the jig setting their inter-deadeye distance at the bottom...I then wrapped the shroud around the upper deadeye and glued it in place (temporarily holding the shroud to itself about an inch or two above the upper deadeye with an alligator clip). Now there are no moving parts so I could then take my time doing the seizing (maybe a six inch piece of seizing thread with the end stiffened using CA loosely wrapped four times at the throat where the shrouds pass by each other). I would then snug everything down and tack the seizing in place using CA only later cutting off (or tying off) the loose ends.

The first few times were a mess but eventually the seizing becomes a nice routine. Wishing you luck!
 
I'll try and explain this without pictures first :). You are at the part where you've got the shroud glued to the upper deadeye and the ends held with an alligator clip. Now you have to cross the ends of the shroud to do the throat seizing. But there is no slack to bend the standing end down. You must have to undo something now in order to do the throat seizing. I'll go look at Kudin's video again.
 
He takes the shroud off the jig and flattens the shroud down and does some magic with a piece of thread and a throat seizing appears:). OK, this is the part that's messing me up. I'm sure everyone doesn't have magic fingers. How do I get around this part.
 
Don Case said:
You must have to undo something now in order to do the throat seizing. I'll go look at Kudin's video again.
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Correct. I only temporarily apply the alligator clip until I get the shroud glued to the deadeye. Once the CA sets I remove the alligator clip and that frees up the 'loose' end of the shroud in order to lay it behind the standing part of the shroud and the seizing can then be applied.
 
I use a stand that I place next to the ship and on top is a clip to hold the deadeye. A third hand when you seizing the shroud. It is not easy, but you have to find a way to make it youself easy. Take your time on every knot that gives a good result. No rush.
 
Here is where I am after about a week of tussling with this. So far all serving has been done off the ship on a jig. It probably took about five tries to get to here. Right now I need to serve the tag end up around the shroud. Thanasis, is there a way that your jig can help me here? If I try to do this manually I'm sure I will end up swearing (a lot:)). I don't seem to have enough hands. Should I be anchoring one end somewhere? At least the shroud is held taught in this instance. I can't imagine trying to do this on a loose shroud. My hands just won't do what they are supposed to. Thanks for all your help so far. I'm sure there is a way around this other than starting the build ten years earlier:)

Sorry, forgot the pic.

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