timber for wooden ships

[seo.exper]

https://kuruoglukerestecilik.com/urun-detay/kayin-kereste

this lumber can be used for wooden ships.

 

[Uwek]

Did you use this wood already for a ship model?
It seems to have not so fine grain ?

BTW: A warm welcome here on board of our forum

 

[Greg Chalik]

I'm not really a model ship builder.
However, as a historian I have admired the fully-rigged ships of the line.
I have large quantities of various woods on my property, but I'm in Australia which means most of the wood is gum.
The dried density of gum timber (eucalypts) varies significantly by species, but is generally higher than that of European oak.

Density Comparison

Timber Species

	Average Dried Density (at ~12% moisture content)
European Oak	~675–720 kg/m³
Blue Gum	~850 kg/m³

I have a range of softwoods for the parts that require softwoods, but of course intend to use the gum timber for framing and hull planking.

The project in mind is HMS Warspite 1807 74-gun (sister to Colossus 1803) which is significant to Australia as the first ship of the line to visit the colony on her circumnavigation cruise.

This was to test the new iron bracing Sir Robert Seppings had installed.

I will not be modelling that upgrade, but the 1807 as built version because I have plans from Colossus.

Any words of wisdom in dealing with a more dense than usual wood species in the build?

Thank you in advance.

Greg

PS. I have now identified a supply of oak I need to negotiate, but still interested in the utility of more dense woods in model building.
I now also realise the gums are not well-predisposed to humidity, so...

 

[Jim Fortnam]

I have used Oz timber here in England for furniture features.

My wise words are:

“Sharp tools”

And you may be advised to look into sharpening systems.

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

he dried density of gum timber (eucalypts) varies significantly by species, but is generally higher than that of European oak.

I can only approach this as theory as I have zero experience with OZ timber species.

For me Oak or most any species of nut bearing trees are a very poor choice of timber for a scale model ship - If the wood is left natural.
Hidden or painted this Family? is as suitable as any other.
What I want is wood with tight grain, straight grain, fine texture, as little contrast with the grain as possible, no visible pores.
Dense can be good up to a point. Very dense can wear bandsaw blades -which tend to break when dull. And dull circular blades.
Carbide is probably the better option - the cost is increased loss to kerf.

I use well seasoned timber. Air drying takes a long time (1 year per inch). Checking can be a problem. I read that kiln drying can be tricky and involves fairly rigid factors that can vary with species. I think that I read that too much heat can case harden wood.

Look at the smooth flat surface. Imagine how much it looks like wood that is 50 times smaller.

If you mill your own wood - the plane of the cut in relation to growth rings can often produce dramatically different grain patterns.

 

[Greg Chalik]

I have used Oz timber here in England for furniture features.

My wise words are:

“Sharp tools”

And you may be advised to look into sharpening systems.

Yep, I know this from historical research into First Fleet carpenters trying to build a craft (lugger) and failing. They produced this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Hill_Packet

 

[Greg Chalik]

I can only approach this as theory as I have zero experience with OZ timber species.

For me Oak or most any species of nut bearing trees are a very poor choice of timber for a scale model ship - If the wood is left natural.
Hidden or painted this Family? is as suitable as any other.
What I want is wood with tight grain, straight grain, fine texture, as little contrast with the grain as possible, no visible pores.
Dense can be good up to a point. Very dense can wear bandsaw blades -which tend to break when dull. And dull circular blades.
Carbide is probably the better option - the cost is increased loss to kerf.

I use well seasoned timber. Air drying takes a long time (1 year per inch). Checking can be a problem. I read that kiln drying can be tricky and involves fairly rigid factors that can vary with species. I think that I read that too much heat can case harden wood.

Look at the smooth flat surface. Imagine how much it looks like wood that is 50 times smaller.

If you mill your own wood - the plane of the cut in relation to growth rings can often produce dramatically different grain patterns.

I'm not a model ship builder. It seems to me appropriate to build a model from oak perhaps for sentimental reasons of the "wall of oak", and you are probably correct.
It would be a waste of oak timber not to try.
I'd have to air dry it though. I do have a shed for it.

 

[Jim Fortnam]

It seems to me appropriate to build a model from oak perhaps for sentimental reasons

it may be appropriate, but it is not a good choice. There are hundreds of varieties of the Quercus species (oak) of which Quercus Robur is probably the one most used in creating the British Fleet, resulting in the deforestation of swathes of southern England.
It's good to use when green, smells delightful, is tannin rich and discolours in the presence of steel and iron etc etc.
But it doesn't scale well.
You may be able to find areas of fine grain that will still look like oak when used in a model, or hunt through oak veneer and constructional veneers to find bits, but seriously, I would go with pear, lime, boxwood, maybe sycamore if you want a bit of figure in the grain.
Ask yourself, seriously, what effect you are wanting to finish up with? A fine grain timber will look more convincing than grossly overscale growth rings or silver figure. Added to which, the large and open pores add a further distraction. Even in furniture finishing it's almost a requirement to fill oak grain if you need a quality finish. Grain filling and French polishing or oiling a refectory table is a pain, but absolute simplicity compared to trying to get a finish on a model where every square inch has some sort of fixture in the way, or invites close up scrutiny of the curve of a stem or stern.

Close grain for looks, hardwood for some strength, accuracy in cutting and fitting for a museum standard... Long life to get to the end....

J

 

[AllanKP69]

Heed Jim's advice Greg!. Oak is one of the worst species of hardwood you could choose for a ship model. Boxwood, castello, Alaskan cedar, Swiss (steamed) pear, holly and others will suit you much better. Allan

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

As an example of why using Oak for any part not hidden inside is ill-adivised I present for your consideration:

The link is to an excelent build in a relatively large scale. The work is meticulous and precise. The whole of its otherwise impressive presentation is severely detracted by the overbearing distraction cause by the use of Oak. It is coarse grain. It is open pore. It is grafitti.

Title - De Zeven Provinciën 1665 by YankeeD - Scale 1:50 - according to drawings by Mr. O. Blom - First wooden scratch ship build
Link - https://modelshipworld.com/topic/13...-blom-first-wooden-scratch-ship-build/page/4/