Trenails and Iron nails (when and what)

to use fasteners or not is really not a debate it is a personal preference.

when the museum model shop tested various fasteners they found out using tiny wooden pegs (treenails) would easily break, so using wood as a mechanical fastener to actually hold parts together failed at a small scale. One of the best ideas is to use copper, silver, brass or stainless steel wire.
OR

plastic
rods.JPG

pounding in plastic rods actually held up really good

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the one issue with the rods is the only color available is white

so to fix that problem

drill a hole slightly larger than the plastic rod

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then use an expanding glue and dip the end of the rod into the glue and drive it into the hole. The glue will ooze up around the rod

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and the glue will expand out and over the top

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once dry a quick pass with fine sandpaper and a perfect looking strong peg and a neutral color.

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real ships used drift pins in the early days 1800 they were made of copper later replace with iron
the drift pins were just a rod with a clench ring, when the pin was hammered in the end would mushroom over the ring

here you see larger drift pins and smaller planking nails

a6.jpg

here are the clinch rings you can see the one on the right split so a planking nail was use to hold it in place.

a7.jpg
 
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you can not set a date when just wooden treenails were used then replace with copper drift pins and iron nails because both were used from the start to the end of wooden ship building. Case in point is the Great Lakes schooner Alvin Clark 1840 used wooden pegs in the frames and iron nails for planking, on deck iron spikes were used capped with a wooden plug.
 
I say 99% of ship models fall into the art & craft category and you can not judge art what appeals to you may not appeal to someone else. I have see a deck on a ship model in silver maple a creamy white wood with way over scale pegs in dark walnut. To me it look awful but who am I to judge it, all I can say is it is not my cup of tea.

That last 1% of faithfully trying to create a historical scale model of anything is a whole different ball game.
 
This is a very interesting discussion. I am of the school that feels if you can't see it at the scale you are working - don't bother. HO model RR (1/87 th scale) buildings and such don't show any nails - although you will see scale boilers and box cars with rivets - but they are usually way out of scale; but in O-scale ( 1/48th) they look right in place. So I guess it would all depend on scale as to how much extra detail one wants to add. I do agree that it is a matter that is up to the individual builder; most of us are not building ships for placement in a museum - unless that's what you call your display area at home. It's a relaxing - though sometimes demanding -hobby that we do for the sheer enjoyment of completing a complicated project. Historical research of the vessel you are working on is as important as the instructions you may or may not recieve with your plans or kits. But again different historians may have different ideas on how something was done, so who can say what the actual practices were for your particular ship. I guess what I'm trying to say is if you want to go to all the trouble of adding something that wouldn't normally be visible - then do it; but if you don't you don't. It's your ship your way and damn the torpedos!
 
To expend on what I wrote earlier and make it my 6 cents:
Speaking for scratch building... mostly......
It has been established that the representation of some of the fastening is based on the modeler's preferences.

This said, when it comes to actually showing these fastenings on your models, this should not be a last minute decision: it should be part of what a modeler plans to show in the final look. Putting aside the material used, fastening should be done according to scale as well as pretty much following the practices from the vessel's time period, the country of origin, etc.
Some of the practices have been well documented and concern precise number of nails (for example) used per part to be joined, size of nail according to parts to be joined, ect, etc. My own opinion on the subject is quite simple , if you build a French ship, of one the most popular vessels (from a monograph), and there are many built here, if you decide to show some of the fastening, all that info is contained into the documentation used (in the plans): and that will include, size, placement, etc.... If you build a British ship, there may be such documentation, etc.... if not, There are enough models built that many could be inspired by them.
In all cases, since the modeler's has the choice of showing or not showing, since the original plans are usually in 1:48 or 1/4" scale, the representation of fastening is a real possibility: that is actually why most plan are designed at that scale or higher 1:36 as this scale gives the modelers the option of showing or not showing.
If no such documentation exist for you particular project, and since most are not worried about 100% accuracy, one should use common sense within his idea of an artistic rendition of a particular ship.
Including the fastening to scale will not make you a freak for accuracy, it will not make you a purist in the ship building domain... but if do it, then do it somewhat "right", You may push your artistic license further and use purple fastening, although if you do, you are well within an artistic license allowing you, the modeler, to use oversize nails and as many or as few as you wish to use.

G.
 
It would be good to have some sort of historical chart or document for the tree nails needed for each scale etc.

I look at some of my earlier models and cringe at how terrible the treenails appear. As Janos mentioned earlier- I made the mistake of adding them on the line of the frames only- I was so proud of the model at the time.
I then moved to filling tiny holes with a fine grout/paint mixture when I was after a more weathered look. This had a subtle, more authentic look.
Now I'm a bit more like Dave Stevens- if it wouldn't look realistic on the full scale ship then it's better to avoid them altogether.
There's people restoring old wooden ships on Youtube and it gives you an idea of what the ships really looked like.
 
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