tug boat ALVA B

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

Great investigative work Dave,
From my limited knowledge of full size boat building a lot depends on the yard with reference to the stanchions some yards would make them in a manor that with a hard knock they would break away without much damage to the hull. While other yards would make a very strong structure that would cause a lot of damage and be difficult to repair.

Cheers,
Stephen.

i heard the same thing with the Great Lake lumber hookers, schooners and tugs the bulkwark was always seperate because like you said so they can be repaired. I can see why they would NOT be the top timber of a frames because that would cause a lot of hull damage below the waterway and to the frame. Most likely the square hole in the waterway ran through and the stanchion ran down and nailed to the frame,

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

the way archive images are protected is they are very low resolution and small size images like thumbnail size. so you really can not zoom in to look at details. What you have to do is once you find something useful to your research you have to order a high resolution image.




once you get high resolution images you can zoom way in to the point of seeing the nail heads. This is when the cost of research starts getting a little expensive so you have to be selective on what images to order




it has been said taking images posts or anything from different sources is IP theft. Not so that is a twisted truth just about all digital archives can be used museums and archives expect what they uploaded to be used in public for educational use ( not for profit) as long as the source in shown. Permission is needed when you use the original high definition images those are protected.
I do not quite understand how an archive or museum can have a copyright on everything in their collection when there are holdings from many other sources that also have a copyright like newspaper, magazine images or private photo collections. It is like one copyright piled on other copyrights or do they cancel one another out?

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

working on the drawing i wonder why the wheelhouse is built slanting back?



the blue line is perpendicular to the waterline the cabin behind the wheelhouse is perpendicular to the waterline



and another thing i see no hatchway in the deck so how do they load all the coal below deck for the steam engine?

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

there is no mistake about it the drawing is on a level waterline and the wheel house is definitely slanted back just look at the floor roof line, door and window. Should the siding be level or slanted? in the above post it is level.


i moved the front and back line of the wall to be sure i did not draw it wrong

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

i found a great source for tug information on Facebook there are actually facebook groups that are all about tug boats on the Great Lakes

also the Thunder Bay museum has lots of information

 

[Don Case]

Is the wheelhouse is perpendicular to the keel? Maybe someone screwed up. Possibly the wheelhouse was built while she was still on the ways and the rest of the cabins were added after the launch. Just spitballin'

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

Is the wheelhouse is perpendicular to the keel? Maybe someone screwed up. Possibly the wheelhouse was built while she was still on the ways and the rest of the cabins were added after the launch. Just spitballin'

i figured out the problem. The wheelhouse is actually perpendicular to the keel and not slanted. the profile drawing did not have a waterline drawn or if it does it is very faint. After doing a little digging i found another drawing showing the waterline and the rake of the keel. I used this drawing and rotated the profile drawing to match the keel rake and when i did that the wheelhouse and cabin is perpendicular to the level waterline. All it took were a couple degrees to throw everything off.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

my posts were pending because i just joined a tug boat group but i did get my answer on what this is. i looked throught lots of pictures of tugs and all them have it.

it is a scuttle covering a ladder that goes below deck.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

another question i see no hatchways on the drawing so how was the coal for the steam engine loaded below deck? But there are other curious things on the deck plan it is those little square things next to the cabin




you can see them on the right side maybe these are for loading coal?

 

[Don Case]

I remember when I was a boy my neighbors had a chute that they put down the stairwell to throw firewood into their basement. Is it possible they had a chute that went down the scuttle you mentioned in post 28? But now that I've said that the three hatches in post 29 look like a better option. Three hatches would spread the coal out more. Less shovelling. Probably just dropped right into the coal bin.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

this is my interest and that is learning new things about different types of vessels how they are built and how it all works. Luck for tug boats there were only a few builders so it looks to me like all tugs were built basicly the same way. What did change were moldings along the cabin roof or maybe a monkey rail along the stern small stuff.

you see the same structure in front of the wheelhouse on all wooden tugs

 

[bill schwartz]

hello dave, just wondering if anything was near printing yet? I could stop by the shop if you have time,, Bill S.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

hello dave, just wondering if anything was near printing yet? I could stop by the shop if you have time,, Bill S.

no not yet i am still trying to figure out what some thing are like what are those 2 little hatch things along side the cabin.

 

[Stevedownunder]

another question i see no hatchways on the drawing so how was the coal for the steam engine loaded below deck? But there are other curious things on the deck plan it is those little square things next to the cabin

View attachment 322876


you can see them on the right side maybe these are for loading coal?

View attachment 322878

Hi Dave,
To me the rectangular hatches on the deck look to be in the sort of area where coal bunkers would likely be, that is beside the boiler. The only reason I say that is it is a similar location on the trawler I am building.


Cheers,
Stephen.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

thank you Stephen that confirms the idea for coal loading.
This has nothing to do with the building or drawing just an off the wall thought.
If all the coal is stored in bunkers on one side of the hull would that make the hull list to that heavier side?

but the tug did not need a lot of coal it was more of a day sailor it was not like a ship that went out for days or weeks at a time.

 

[Stevedownunder]

No problem Dave, you have an interesting project.
The coal bunkers were on both sides of the ship and I would imagine the stoker would use coal from both sides evenly also they must have had a method of dragging the coal from the forward end to the aft end otherwise I think it would be very difficult to empty the bunker.

My thoughts for the mystery box in front of the wheelhouse on your tug, is it possibly for storage of equipment, or a companion way to gain access to the forecastle.

Cheers,
Stephen.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

the art of design, drawing and guesses

the problem with drawing a set of modeling plans is not being able to clearly see details so you have to guess.
for example
the pale yellow dots are the molding that goes around the roof of the cabin and wheelhouse





when you zoom in to see their shape this is what you see

i know there is a molding because you can see it in the photograph but that only confirms there is a molding but not the shape of it.
To draw a historically correct set of plans little details can only be obtained if
1 you dive on the wreck
2 find someone who might have photographs of the wreck
3 find someone who can take underwater photographs of the wreck.
4 don't worry about the small details and take a guess.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

i colored in areas that were drawn on the inside profile to isolate them to make it easier to see.




zooming in on the wheelhouse you can see a door and a window, inside there is a bench with some sort cabinet above it. in front of the wheelhouse is a companion way that goes down to a cabin below deck. There are two items drawn on the plan a light tan. The draftsman took the time to draw them but i have no idea what they are.
The boiler is drawn as well as the firebox sitting on bricks, aft or along side there is something drawn that looks like ladder tinted light tan, again i have no idea what the draftsman drew or why. That stack behind the main stack from the firebox is a mystery. On top of the boiler is a steam whistle
at the stern is the rudder, prop and plate on the bottom of the keel.
in the stern cabin again the draftsman included something tinted light tan, what he drew i don't know.
the last item between the knees on deck might be a sky light



looking at the cabin i see 2 doors and something between the doors and a window. There is a sky light in the roof. Also there is a railing that goes below deck. A bench at the forward wall.



when you look at the drawing and look at a photo of the Alva B the doors and windows are different



as a plank on bulkhead model none of this matters because it is all below deck a plank on frame showing the interior and engine it all matters.

 

[bill schwartz]

Dave: thanks for the work looks like it will come together, We were fishing today, saw a tug pushing a barge, gosh the profile was nearly the same, not much has changed in 120 years, let me know when I can drive to your place,, Bill S..

 

[Stevedownunder]

i colored in areas that were drawn on the inside profile to isolate them to make it easier to see.

View attachment 324473


zooming in on the wheelhouse you can see a door and a window, inside there is a bench with some sort cabinet above it. in front of the wheelhouse is a companion way that goes down to a cabin below deck. There are two items drawn on the plan a light tan. The draftsman took the time to draw them but i have no idea what they are.
The boiler is drawn as well as the firebox sitting on bricks, aft or along side there is something drawn that looks like ladder tinted light tan, again i have no idea what the draftsman drew or why. That stack behind the main stack from the firebox is a mystery. On top of the boiler is a steam whistle
at the stern is the rudder, prop and plate on the bottom of the keel.
in the stern cabin again the draftsman included something tinted light tan, what he drew i don't know.
the last item between the knees on deck might be a sky light

View attachment 324474

looking at the cabin i see 2 doors and something between the doors and a window. There is a sky light in the roof. Also there is a railing that goes below deck. A bench at the forward wall.

View attachment 324472

when you look at the drawing and look at a photo of the Alva B the doors and windows are different

View attachment 324469

as a plank on bulkhead model none of this matters because it is all below deck a plank on frame showing the interior and engine it all matters.

Hi Dave,

My guess for the aft small funnel is engine/steam exhaust maybe they weren't running a condenser.
As for the forward light tan items they look a bit like bunks, but you wouldn't expect bunks in a harbor tug I would think.
Hopefully you will get answers to your questions.

Cheers,
Stephen.