Understanding the why's of rigging.

[scepticwoody]

I am rigging my Caldercraft HMS Snake.
I have the book by L Petersson. It is excellent in its detail of every part of the rigging.
As an engineer I like to know why something is the way it is. I cannot just accept 'because it is'!
I have been all over the internet but cannot scratch this particular itch.
For instance -
The main yard is supported by a) a sling (fixed length)
b) two Jeers (blocks and tackles)
c) two lifts (blocks and tackles at the ends of the yards)

I sort of understand the sheets, tacks and cluelines but why are they like that.

So what I am asking is :- Is there any where that I go to get some answers or do I just wind my neck in and accept 'because it is'?!

 

[jimmystratos]

I've been vexed by the same questions! https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/threads/yard-associated-ropes.6471/
Are the jeers to hoist the yard up into position, where the slings takes the weight and the jeers are redundant until the time comes to lower it again?
Any explanations gratefully accepted!

 

[Gilles Korent]

Well, this is located somewhere on the internet:

The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship

maritime.org

So in this case, you have to search the document for slings, jeers (or jears in this link) and lifts.
But do not be afraid of using the "previous part" and "next part" buttons (at the bottom of the page linked) to get the full scope of the document. Here is the link to the home page for the doc: https://maritime.org/doc/steel/index.htm. You may just find answers to many questions about rigging...

And in short:
The yards are hoisted using the jeers. Once raised, they are supported by a sling, and as they must sit basically horizontal, the lifts raise the yardarms (the extremities of the yard).

G

 

[scepticwoody]

Thank you G.
That is one hell of a reference book. It will take some studying.
From an engineering perspective, once the main yard is lifted and braced the jeers just sit and do nothing. Why leave expensive and important lifting equipment in a hostile environment? We didn't do in the navy that I was in.
I will give it more thought.

Thanks again G

Woody

 

[Philski]

I am rigging my Caldercraft HMS Snake.
I have the book by L Petersson. It is excellent in its detail of every part of the rigging.
As an engineer I like to know why something is the way it is. I cannot just accept 'because it is'!
I have been all over the internet but cannot scratch this particular itch.
For instance -
The main yard is supported by a) a sling (fixed length)
b) two Jeers (blocks and tackles)
c) two lifts (blocks and tackles at the ends of the yards)

I sort of understand the sheets, tacks and cluelines but why are they like that.

So what I am asking is :- Is there any where that I go to get some answers or do I just wind my neck in and accept 'because it is'?!

I'm watching this thread carefully. I need to learn. I just received the same book mentioned as a Valentines Day gift from my wife. I too am an engineer (retired now) and details always interests me!

 

[Gilles Korent]

As you can well imagine, every rope, every tackle has its purpose and everything works together.
The jeers are used to hoist the lower yard. Once the yards are up in place with the slings as support, it surely does not mean that the jeers are rendered useless: just sitting there until the yards are moved again. The jeers also support the yard in its centre portion, which, along with the sling give 3 close support points in the center area.
You will find that the topsail and topgallant yards are set differently.
G

 

[Tangopapa]

I need a "Rigging Ships of the Napoleonic Era for Dummies".

 

[scepticwoody]

This dummy googled it - just on the off chance!


Woody

 

[El Capi]

As you can well imagine, every rope, every tackle has its purpose and everything works together.
The jeers are used to hoist the lower yard. Once the yards are up in place with the slings as support, it surely does not mean that the jeers are rendered useless: just sitting there until the yards are moved again. The jeers also support the yard in its centre portion, which, along with the sling give 3 close support points in the center area.
You will find that the topsail and topgallant yards are set differently.
G

Morning from Spain-10,25h -I will try to give you an answer to the question fromSsepticwoody as good that I can. I fully agree with our Canadian member:.Gilles Korient.
On all the 3 lower Yards- rigged differently from the rest. The Lower Yards with the Sling are to fix the Yard in a very fixed point- THE CENTER- of the yard Ones set fast it has no order function yo hold the centre of the yard in its place
The two Jears- one of each side of the Sling -is tho help rising to lower the Yardarm -one upwards and the other side downwards, as the yard was used to bring heavy payload onboard as Guns, Barrels, food, and many other heavy thing-here the foremast yard worked together with the mainmast.
Therefore two Lift Blocks. One to lift and the other opposite. to sum up. The lower Mast DOES not move up or down on the mast. The upper Yards opposite, therefore No SLING. In fact, the is two types of Jers- The Oriental one and The British one -nº3 and 4-

 

[Encre de Chine]

The lower yards are fixed ones, while all others are hoisting ones.
The jeers allow lifting the lower yards in place, at which point the slings are placed and the jeers slacked.
If the jeers remained under tension, the yard would not brace properly and the efforts for that would induce extreme wear.
The lifts allow for fine tuning of the rig under sail, but also to use the yards as lifting points as mentioned.
The topsail yards and above use a single block in the centre, but on large ships, that block is hoisted by pulling at both ends of its purchase, which are each fitted with an additional 2+1 purchase. This requires as many men as hoisting the main yard, only on different elements.
Because there is enough play on the single centred halyard block (tye block), it can stay tensioned without hampering bracing.
Upper yards could be secured by additional slings in battle, possibly chains, as the rigging supporting them runs all the way along both sides of the mast and is at serious risk of damages.

 

[El Capi]

nearly my words

 

[scepticwoody]

Hello El Capi,
Thank you for your information, it all adds to the understanding.
Can I ask where the drawings come from. I recognise the content but they look different to the illustrations in my book.
Very interesting about the lifting of heavy things using the yards and lifts.

I think I should try and imagine myself there, on the ship. How would I use what I have to complete the task in hand?
It would be good if there was a documentary about actually sailing one of these ships. From the point of view of the crewman, the bosun, the navigator and officers. What each had to do and how they did it.

Once again thank you for the information.

Woody

 

[El Capi]

Hello El Capi,
Thank you for your information, it all adds to the understanding.
Can I ask where the drawings come from. I recognise the content but they look different to the illustrations in my book.
Very interesting about the lifting of heavy things using the yards and lifts.

I think I should try and imagine myself there, on the ship. How would I use what I have to complete the task in hand?
It would be good if there was a documentary about actually sailing one of these ships. From the point of view of the crewman, the bosun, the navigator and officers. What each had to do and how they did it.

Once again thank you for the information.

WoodyI have a huge Databank witg more than 1000 Pic. What ou seen is from Book in Spanish "Aquitectura Naval" or from the Web. WWW.pinterest. I you shoud come Denmark, you could be a crewmaa for a wqeek or two on the Topsails Schooner "Lilla Dan" or two more Schooners all makig tours for campanies, schools, frinds etc. I have been on a Company course. Tema how to comunicate and work better in different part of a Company. Production, Marketing , Sales Ran D on manegers levels -diferent - but first day all down to ordinary seamen, and had to learn to work in grup-one person from each group -and learn to work on watch. during day cleaning cooking take care of riggen etc. then from 16,00 one os the 3 grups have to run the ship. at 20,00 h of before, never later, next crew until 24,00 h and so during to 08,00 in the morning. it was hard for some, but i had my navy background behind me. It wa funny to see one of the top manager cleaning the loo. The crew were mixed, but all sleping inthe sleeping back- both women and men- and there were no shoover on board with sweet water

 

[El Capi]

Woody I have a huge Databank with more than 1000 Pic. What you have seen is from Book in Spanish "Aquitectura Naval" or from the Web. WWW.pinterest.If you should come to Denmark, you could be a crewman for a week or two on the Topsails Schooner "Lilla Dan" or two more Schooners all making tours for companies, schools, friends etc. I have been on a Company course. Tema how to communicate and work better in a different part of a Company. Production, Marketing, Sales Ran D on managers levels -different - but the first day all down to ordinary seamen, and had to learn to work in group-one person from each group -and learn to work on the watch. during day cleaning cooking take care of Riggen etc. then from 16,00 one os, the where 3 groups have to run the ship. at 20,00 h of before, never later, next crew until 24,00 h and so during to 08,00 in the morning. it was hard for some, but I had my navy background behind me. It was funny to see one of the top manager cleaning the loo. The crew were mixed, but all sleeping in the sleeping back- both women and men- and there was no shower on board with sweet water, only wash think for both sex. the red one above is Lilla Dan the other one is Johanna

 

[Steef66]

The book from Petersen is not explain a lot of things. I learned the most from R.C Anderson 17th century rigging.
And the link mention before from the online book.
But Anderson is great to understand the why, what and how.

 

[El Capi]

The book from Petersen is not explain a lot of things. I learned the most from R.C Anderson 17th century rigging.
And the link mention before from the online book.
But Anderson is great to understand the why, what and how.

I have Images of both the Standing and Running Riggen en details- drawings-mainly the running Riggen -with or without sails

 

[scepticwoody]

El capi - Could I go sailing for real? I think it is a great idea. I would learn a great amount.
However, after I joined the Royal Navy in 1979 I found out I was the worst sailor. It would take at least three days before I finally stopped being ill! Fortunately I was destined for the submarine service. Their motto was "see a wave and DIVE". This suited me much better and glowing in the dark is useful!

My next question is what angle do I set the studding support rings. I can see that they are at some angle to the rear upper quarter of the yards but what angle? I think it is about 45 deg but that is only a guess.

Woody

 

[El Capi]

El capi - Could I go sailing for real? I think it is a great idea. I would learn a great amount.
However, after I joined the Royal Navy in 1979 I found out I was the worst sailor. It would take at least three days before I finally stopped being ill! Fortunately I was destined for the submarine service. Their motto was "see a wave and DIVE". This suited me much better and glowing in the dark is useful!

My next question is what angle do I set the studding support rings. I can see that they are at some angle to the rear upper quarter of the yards but what angle? I think it is about 45 deg but that is only a guess.

Woody

Yes, you can in Denmark go out sailing with schooners and topsails schooners and some other type from a 1-day, tour op to 2 weeks. and is. expected to be a crew member.
yes 45º correct.

 

[El Capi]

Yes, you can in Denmark go out sailing with schooners and topsails schooners and some other type from a 1-day, tour op to 2 weeks. and is. expected to be a crew member.
yes 45º correct.

I finally found an image to your question -if my English is correct

 

[jimmystratos]

But 45 degrees forward or aft?