I also think the price is acceptable for what you get, Vanguard is not a large profit driven factory somewhere paying its workers $1.50 an hour - as far as I know it’s a guy (Chris Watton) and his wife (Chantelle) that have a vision and are committed to designing and producing the best ship model kits that their extensive talent and experience can facilitate. Now that I think about it, I wonder if they are even making $1.50 per hour as they both work elsewhere (I think, I know Chris does) and he keeps investing in mega dollar laser cutters etc. to be able to produce larger and better kits….. so buying a kit from them is like an investment in the future of excellence in this hobby!! And as far as licensing and legal mambo jumbo that I admittedly don’t know much about, I would stake my home on the fact that he is above reproach in all of those aspects of the business. Ok - enough rant, just check out the products and judge for yourselves…. https://vanguardmodels.co.uk/
New kit Vanguard HMS Sphinx 1775 1/64 scale
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Lou
you make a very good point as i know Ev and I at the Lumberyard are a mom and pop operation and we make very little at it.
And as far as licensing and legal mambo jumbo that I admittedly don’t know much about,
i only brought that up because some folks make a big deal out of mambo jumbo and if i were a kit builder i would buy the kit regardless of all the ranting and raving about mambo Jumbo that goes on.
just a counter point
if you are getting into the "business" of kits or fittings or rigging block, milled wood or whatever you have to figure out how to produce that product for a reasonable market price you can not just pass on your higher costs to the customer. The competition will eat you alive, this is a very world wide competitive market. Would i personally "invest" as you say in Chris Watton? not a chance there is a lot of talented people out there who can take this hobby to ever higher levels.
i can produce a state of the art model of the steam ship Mississippi including a 3d printed kit of the engine room. right down to the nuts and bolts. At the low low cost of $5,763.67 a marketable product? i don't think so.
cost is the number one rule
but with all that said i would like to see build logs of the kit here on Ships of Scale
i would as a moderator of this site suggest Vanguard Models to place an ad on the forum
you make a very good point as i know Ev and I at the Lumberyard are a mom and pop operation and we make very little at it.
And as far as licensing and legal mambo jumbo that I admittedly don’t know much about,
i only brought that up because some folks make a big deal out of mambo jumbo and if i were a kit builder i would buy the kit regardless of all the ranting and raving about mambo Jumbo that goes on.
just a counter point
if you are getting into the "business" of kits or fittings or rigging block, milled wood or whatever you have to figure out how to produce that product for a reasonable market price you can not just pass on your higher costs to the customer. The competition will eat you alive, this is a very world wide competitive market. Would i personally "invest" as you say in Chris Watton? not a chance there is a lot of talented people out there who can take this hobby to ever higher levels.
i can produce a state of the art model of the steam ship Mississippi including a 3d printed kit of the engine room. right down to the nuts and bolts. At the low low cost of $5,763.67 a marketable product? i don't think so.
cost is the number one rule
but with all that said i would like to see build logs of the kit here on Ships of Scale
i would as a moderator of this site suggest Vanguard Models to place an ad on the forum
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Just a short comment:
Many thanks to the words by @Stargazer - I agree with most of your comments and given information.
It is a very good kit with very good quality, and the finished model has a very good appearance. Manuals and drawings seems to be first class.
So I completely agree, that this kit, with so much prefabricated parts (you wrote: "in some ways it assembles much like a plastic model") and documented (manual + plans), is well designed, so that a lot of modelers will produce a good model.
I personally like more the POF models, but this is completely a personal taste. Sometimes we need also the challenges of imperfection or semi-prefabricated parts. with sanding, cutting etc. - and the models will have much more often a different appearance, more individual results.
I am pretty sure, that NO manufacturer (worldwide) will get really rich with their kits and I am also very happy and glad, that there are some enthusiasts out there developing for us new challenges and tasks. And the question if a requested price is high, too high or correct? ..... the market will tell -> every possible customer is deciding by himself, which price he is willing to pay.
The Vanguard model is in the same price range (and size and scale) like the HMS Diana from Jotika, and looks like a really better and / or uptodate kit.
I would also like to see a building log of the Sphinx here in our forum. Would be very interesting to see......
BTW:
There are several drawings available at the NMM, which could be interesting for the modelers working on the model later on....
F.e. this one
Scale: 1:48. Plan showing the body plan, sheer lines and longitudinal half-breadth proposed (and approved) for Sphinx (1775), a 20-gun sixth Rate to be built at Portsmouth Dockyard. The plan includes a table of the mast and yard dimensions. Signed by John Williams [Surveyor of the Navy, 1765-1784]
or this one is highly interesting
Scale: 1:48. Plan showing the outboard expansion and the inboard expansion for Sphinx (1775), a 20-gun Sixth Rate. Signed by John Ancell [Assistant to the Master Shipwright, Plymouth Dockyard, 1801-1814].
Many thanks to the words by @Stargazer - I agree with most of your comments and given information.
It is a very good kit with very good quality, and the finished model has a very good appearance. Manuals and drawings seems to be first class.
So I completely agree, that this kit, with so much prefabricated parts (you wrote: "in some ways it assembles much like a plastic model") and documented (manual + plans), is well designed, so that a lot of modelers will produce a good model.
I personally like more the POF models, but this is completely a personal taste. Sometimes we need also the challenges of imperfection or semi-prefabricated parts. with sanding, cutting etc. - and the models will have much more often a different appearance, more individual results.
I am pretty sure, that NO manufacturer (worldwide) will get really rich with their kits and I am also very happy and glad, that there are some enthusiasts out there developing for us new challenges and tasks. And the question if a requested price is high, too high or correct? ..... the market will tell -> every possible customer is deciding by himself, which price he is willing to pay.
The Vanguard model is in the same price range (and size and scale) like the HMS Diana from Jotika, and looks like a really better and / or uptodate kit.
I would also like to see a building log of the Sphinx here in our forum. Would be very interesting to see......
BTW:
There are several drawings available at the NMM, which could be interesting for the modelers working on the model later on....
F.e. this one
Scale: 1:48. Plan showing the body plan, sheer lines and longitudinal half-breadth proposed (and approved) for Sphinx (1775), a 20-gun sixth Rate to be built at Portsmouth Dockyard. The plan includes a table of the mast and yard dimensions. Signed by John Williams [Surveyor of the Navy, 1765-1784]
or this one is highly interesting
Scale: 1:48. Plan showing the outboard expansion and the inboard expansion for Sphinx (1775), a 20-gun Sixth Rate. Signed by John Ancell [Assistant to the Master Shipwright, Plymouth Dockyard, 1801-1814].
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So I completely agree, that this kit, with so much prefabricated parts (you wrote: "in some ways it assembles much like a plastic model") and documented (manual + plans), is well designed, so that a lot of modelers will produce a good model.
I personally like more the POF models, but this is completely a personal taste. Sometimes we need also the challenges of imperfection or semi-prefabricated parts. with sanding, cutting etc. - and the models will have much more often a different appearance, more individual results.
this would make an interesting topic and one of the reasons Harold Hahn would never allow a "kit" of any of his models. It took a lot of convincing just to sell a timbering set of his models. The question is how far do you go with a kit design before it becomes as Hahn said a "paint by number" project?
As Uwek said "Sometimes we need also the challenges of imperfection or semi-prefabricated parts. with sanding, cutting etc. - and the models will have much more often a different appearance, more individual results."
At one extreme you have a scratch builder that has to create everything and at the other end a kit that is so over fabricated it becomes nothing more than a 3D jig saw puzzle.
The bulkhead kits are old school and the new plank on frame kits are a giant step forward in kits and yes they actually require skill to build up the frames and being able to built a hull.
I remember way back when i first introduced laser cut kits at a NRG conference, the comments i got were "you young guys want it all done for you, this will destroy the "art" of model ship building".
As i build the Tecumseth i have to sit and think each step through because there are no instructions. On the other hand kits that provide step by step how to to "assemble" the pre made parts takes all the thinking out of the build. That is the purpose of forums like this, when you get stuck you reach out to others for advice and information and not to just turn to the next page. That was Hahns thinking, he gives you a good starting point it is up to you to fill in the blanks, learn as you go, do a little research
There is nothing wrong with hobbyists just wanting to assemble and build something with a guarantee of satisfactory results. That is just one part of this hobby.
I personally like more the POF models, but this is completely a personal taste. Sometimes we need also the challenges of imperfection or semi-prefabricated parts. with sanding, cutting etc. - and the models will have much more often a different appearance, more individual results.
this would make an interesting topic and one of the reasons Harold Hahn would never allow a "kit" of any of his models. It took a lot of convincing just to sell a timbering set of his models. The question is how far do you go with a kit design before it becomes as Hahn said a "paint by number" project?
As Uwek said "Sometimes we need also the challenges of imperfection or semi-prefabricated parts. with sanding, cutting etc. - and the models will have much more often a different appearance, more individual results."
At one extreme you have a scratch builder that has to create everything and at the other end a kit that is so over fabricated it becomes nothing more than a 3D jig saw puzzle.
The bulkhead kits are old school and the new plank on frame kits are a giant step forward in kits and yes they actually require skill to build up the frames and being able to built a hull.
I remember way back when i first introduced laser cut kits at a NRG conference, the comments i got were "you young guys want it all done for you, this will destroy the "art" of model ship building".
As i build the Tecumseth i have to sit and think each step through because there are no instructions. On the other hand kits that provide step by step how to to "assemble" the pre made parts takes all the thinking out of the build. That is the purpose of forums like this, when you get stuck you reach out to others for advice and information and not to just turn to the next page. That was Hahns thinking, he gives you a good starting point it is up to you to fill in the blanks, learn as you go, do a little research
There is nothing wrong with hobbyists just wanting to assemble and build something with a guarantee of satisfactory results. That is just one part of this hobby.
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we do have the tools and technology to create kits that literally snap together. The question is can it go to far and what was once a craft and art form becomes this? no skill needed, no planning no thinking it has all been done for you. Can a kit be over engineered to the point of being in the Lego class??
Isn't all about the fun! POB POF Plastic, Paper Lego. Does it really matter. ?
As long as everyone can get into the Hobby at any skill level is really what its all about from the Highly Skilled technobabble perfectionist to the 'Hey look what I did this weekend person. I like a challenge but also love simplicity and easy. The more people you can make enjoy the hobby the better for all of us!. I'm sure both the Scratch & the Paint by numbers perosn get just as much pride and enjoyment from their fininshed work.
Oh and large Technic Lego kits are NOT simple. ( Wait till you find out you have put a diffrential or gear in back to front and have to pull the whole kit apart to fix it!).
As long as everyone can get into the Hobby at any skill level is really what its all about from the Highly Skilled technobabble perfectionist to the 'Hey look what I did this weekend person. I like a challenge but also love simplicity and easy. The more people you can make enjoy the hobby the better for all of us!. I'm sure both the Scratch & the Paint by numbers perosn get just as much pride and enjoyment from their fininshed work.
Oh and large Technic Lego kits are NOT simple. ( Wait till you find out you have put a diffrential or gear in back to front and have to pull the whole kit apart to fix it!).
Just pre-ordered it. $980.13 including freight.
Great - so christmas will be in some days / weeks
Hope that you can show us the cointent of the kit and later maybe a building log ....
Unfortunately shipping delayed indefinitely, so I cancelled the order. Ordered Norske Love by Billings Boats instead. This was probably a smart move as I am too much of a novice to engage in a major build of a brand new model without support from other builders.
Sorry to hear that - but the Norske Love is also a very interesting project.......
Just received an e-mail from Chris Watton, the kit is delayed for one week only. I mis understood his original post suggesting it couls be until some time in November. To his credit he immeditely issued a refumd to my credit card.
Awww, that’s too bad, I think you would have been just fine with the Sphinx, there are so many helps built into the process, but you will learn more from the Norske Love, and Dean62 is doing a great build log to guide you to succeed with it. Also that is a chunk of money for a mid size kit, you can get the Amati Vanguard or an Agamemnon for that kind of money…. Old school kits yes but very many exceptional models built from those kits…. As with the N.L. Hope to see a build log soon!
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Hi
I am looking at buying this ship. I have to make a decision between Vasa or this one.
Your comments above are very useful. When I look at the model pictures, what I like is that you see the inside of the Captain's quarters, and could probably even build a table and chairs to fit in there. Also, it is fully rigged(minus the sails). The price is a little scary, but when I look at the cost over 3 years, which seems to be my build time on average, then the cost isn't too bad.
On the other hand, the Vasa kit has been extensively bashed by many others and there is even a professor that comments sometimes. On the down side, it requires a huge amount of painting of very small pieces and I see my eyes going crooked to paint them.
I am looking at buying this ship. I have to make a decision between Vasa or this one.
Your comments above are very useful. When I look at the model pictures, what I like is that you see the inside of the Captain's quarters, and could probably even build a table and chairs to fit in there. Also, it is fully rigged(minus the sails). The price is a little scary, but when I look at the cost over 3 years, which seems to be my build time on average, then the cost isn't too bad.
On the other hand, the Vasa kit has been extensively bashed by many others and there is even a professor that comments sometimes. On the down side, it requires a huge amount of painting of very small pieces and I see my eyes going crooked to paint them.
Jack, that would be a first for SOS - haven’t seen a build log yet for Sphinx. Looks like the price is more favorable now also - I calculated $802 shipped to Utah which is better than it was when introduced! I think that is on sale he is offering 10% off till Sep. 30 - better hurry! I was going to get it but I’m waiting for a 50 gun Fourth Rate he is going to do ( someday) 
HMS Bristol, it won’t have this style of construction, more traditional POB style- but he is developing some larger kits and I am waiting for that one.
HMS Bristol, it won’t have this style of construction, more traditional POB style- but he is developing some larger kits and I am waiting for that one.
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Here’s the latest kit in development from Vanguard Models… there was made mention before that people are liking POF kits and while this is still a POB kit I dare say that it is miles ahead of any other POB kit out there. It is the HMS Indefatigable in 1/64, a little larger than the Agamemnon kit Chris designed years and years ago. Show me another kit producer that is this innovative and progressive with new design and techniques. This has to be at least ten times better design and technology as his Caldercraft offerings. I think it will be ready next year sometime…
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interesting ship
Looking good, but I have a question related to the photos:
Is this model double planked? But pear for a base-layer would be also strange
Seems, that the planking is laser cut, but unfortunately the half planks (from bow to midships and from stern to midship) are joined all on midship in the same axis.
I think this could be made better with alternate lengths....
