what is right

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)

Sponsor: dlumberyard
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i do not own the Lumberyard i only work there. It is true my wife and daughter own it so it is in the family but i have no say so in the operation.

here is an issue that crops up every now and then.

a customer buys a timbering set at say a cost of $400.00 and shipping is another $110.00 this is going out of the US. The US postal service only tracks a package to the border after that it is on it's own.

now a customer says they never got the package and wants a refund or wants us to resend another one. We filled the order and sent it on it's way what happens to it is out of our hands. I feel bad for the customer who never got the order but on the other hand it is no fault of ours and to take a loss because someone else messed up. The postal service does offer insurance but it does not come close to the cost of lost item and return to sender is a long shot and usually never happens.
If we were as big as Amazon sure we can send a replacement but we are a tiny mom and pop operation.

sometimes

1 they got the package and try to pull a scam
2 the packade was lost
3 the customer moved and did not have a forwarding address
4 delieverd to the wrong place
5 the package might show up months later

it is a situation that is difficult to deal with if it happened to you what would you expect?
 
Can I ask you how do you get your shipping rates?are you going to the post office or through your website ?
 
The Right is the customer! The customer is and will be always right! This is the nature of the customer-oriented business if you want success.

Think about, the one who ordered timber from your store. He paid in full as you have requested for his order, then he expected the package to arrive with the goods he bought, but instead for ANY reason (you name it) the package never made it to his door. :eek: Now... is it the buyer's fault?

Shipping is becoming more and more troublesome nowadays. There are so many carriers now, that choosing the right one becomes the problem. It is difficult to suggest, as I don't own the business...However, the right one would be the one, who can assured a refund in case of damage or loss. The shipper should investigate why and where the package was missing, not the customer!

BTW, one of my packages was stolen from my apartment building. When I called to investigate, they sent me a photo proof that it was delivered! This is sad, but it is in no way a shipper or company's fault. :oops:
 
I personally never send out such a large value without tracking number all the way to the customer

the US postal does include tracking but once the package is in Canada the tracking stops. The US post office says it is not responsible once it reaches Canada and they can not track it in the Canadian postal system.

Can I ask you how do you get your shipping rates?are you going to the post office or through your website ?

shipping rates start in Shopify but they are usually much higher to EV adjusts the rate

Think about, the one who ordered timber from your store. He paid in full as you have requested for his order, then he expected the package to arrive with the goods he bought, but instead for ANY reason (you name it) the package never made it to his door. :eek: Now... is it the buyer's fault?

no it is not the buyers fault nor is it the companys fault the fault lies with the Canadian postal service or the customer never provided a forwarding address when he moved. if it is lost then "return to sender" is iffy.

we are talking about to replace the kit cost of the original a replacement and double the shipping is arounf $1,000.00 that is a lot to just say oh well i will replace it.

within the US a package is tracked from door to door but not out of the US tracking is only to the border.

Shipping is becoming more and more troublesome nowadays. There are so many carriers now, that choosing the right one becomes the problem. It is difficult to suggest, as I don't own the business...However, the right one would be the one, who can assured a refund in case of damage or loss. The shipper should investigate why and where the package was missing, not the customer!

we can not investigate because it is not the US postal system and the tracking number is no good in the Canadian postal system. All it says it got to Canada and thas it.

it is a funny thing we did try the insured route but got nowhere we can prove we sent it but can not prove where it went when it got to Canada maybe to the customer, maybe to his old address or to limbo

it just does not seem right it is not a businesses problem if delivery goes bad
 
the US postal does include tracking but once the package is in Canada the tracking stops. The US post office says it is not responsible once it reaches Canada and they can not track it in the Canadian postal system.

Thiis is not true Dave
 
zoly99sask said:
the US postal does include tracking but once the package is in Canada the tracking stops. The US post office says it is not responsible once it reaches Canada and they can not track it in the Canadian postal system.

Thiis is not true Dave
Click to expand...

ok but that is the story i got directly from the people at the local post office

so i will look into it and see if i can get the right answer.

i can see Amazon who is responsible for the item, the payment and shipping because it is all under Amazons control. So if a package does not arrive it is Amazon fault. but like jim said if it was delivered and they prove it then they are no longer responsible what happens to it once it reaches it intended destination. But if a business fills an order and hands that package to US postal or UPS or FEDX the responsibility is now out of the hands of the business because they have no control what happens.
 
Dave ,you should have the tracking number,or in the shopify attached to the order ,you do not have to go to the post office for that ,use tracking bumbef and check online the status where is the parcel
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
we can not investigate because it is not the US postal system and the tracking number is no good in the Canadian postal system. All it says it got to Canada and thas it.

it is a funny thing we did try the insured route but got nowhere we can prove we sent it but can not prove where it went when it got to Canada maybe to the customer, maybe to his old address or to limbo

it just does not seem right it is not a businesses problem if delivery goes bad
Click to expand...
There is something wrong with the carrier you are using. Lately, I have been buying goods from China (AliExpress) From China, they send using their carriers, Usually Canary Express, and then in the US it goes using USPS. It is trackable all the way.
From Canada, it also gives a tracking # you can track with Canada Post or one of the international trackers like one

Universal Parcel Tracking - Global Package Tracking

Parcel Tracking Worldwide. Track Parcel in USA. Global postal tracking from eBay, AliExpress, ASOS, Shein, Amazon. Tracking packages from China, UK, Germany
parcelsapp.com parcelsapp.com

Maybe you should change the carrier?
 
I sent a ship model kit from the US to the UK. In order to save on shipping costs my local shipper (a professional shipper) recommended we use the USPS. While the package was in USPS hands we had tracking. But the moment it passed through UK customs we lost tracking (this was predicted by my shipper). In that regard my experience was the same as Dave's.

As to the question posted by Dave in this post: when I order something in my mind it falls on the seller to make sure it gets to me. I know that on the surface it seems unfair to the seller - but that's what is happening in my mind. I pay the seller for the product and for the shipping so the whole transaction falls on the seller. (Now, if I paid the shipping company directly I might feel differently - but that's not the way most transactions are handled.)

In light of the spate of shipping problems of late perhaps we (society) need to come up with a better system. In the US it would probably take an act of Congress to make shipping companies take ownership of the service they are supposed to provide...

All that said, I feel for you Dave. I'm a small business owner myself and it is painful when things don't go right - especially when you did your part.

Oh, one more thing. On the buyer side I love Shopify - they DO update me with regard to the location of my package (including international shipments). It's odd that Shopify can figure this out, but the postal services cannot.
 
A few years back I did a wood order from Rusia. The seller, a well known SOS member sent the package. It arrived open and all the wood strips (half of the shipment) was lost. The shipment has tracking # from Russia and USA. It did all the trip as expected, we tracked it. But !!! In some place, the package was opened. The Seller, immediately offered to send me again the missing wood. But it wasn't his fault and I couldn't accept he takes all the lost. So I offered to pay the full shipping again (not cheap at all). So I did, and he sent me the missing wood. In other words we shared lost.

If this seller would happen to be a big company, then my attitude would be different. But it is a family business, like yours (The Lumberyard). It is a very well now seller, like The Lumberyard. In this small world of model ship building, if something is lost during shipment, and that comes from a very well known family business, after a few (many !!!) bad words against the shipping process/companies, then i will look for a share solution.

As mentioned, the seller needs to find a safe shipping method. I lost money that time, the seller too. But the seller can't allow that to happen with many customers. And, at the end, Custmer Attention is the most important thing to take care !!!
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
I personally never send out such a large value without tracking number all the way to the customer

the US postal does include tracking but once the package is in Canada the tracking stops. The US post office says it is not responsible once it reaches Canada and they can not track it in the Canadian postal system.
Click to expand...

Hi Dave,

I have had many tracked packages sent from the US to Canada. Once tracking is activated USPS tracked packages are easily tracked in Canada by simply entering the same tracking number on the Canada Post site. Continuity between the two postal services then works well.
 
Ev has been tracking the kit as i said it was tracked to Canada and at that point tracking stopped then weeks later i told EV to recheck to see if anything comes up. That was yesterday
lo and behold the kit is sitting in Chicago WHY! well Chicago and Canada both start with the letter C so maybe someone got confused.
i suspect at some point it will either get to the customer or back to us. If we get it back EV will resend it free shipping to the customer.

total time the kit has been floating around in the US and Canadian postal systems is now 5 weeks

we have been in business a long time and for sure saw our share of lost items, scams, and customers willing to share the cost of replacement and customes who blame us for damage or lost orders.

United States Postal Service does offer insurance for lost and damaged packages but it is not easy getting them to pay up.

At one time shipping a timbering set cost around $32.00 today it is over $100.00 so that is hard on a mom and pop operation to resend a lost item on top of the cost of the item.

it is a tough break for both the buyer and seller when neither one is at fault and both loose because of someone else's mistake.

the US postal system does have a very good track record.

something is out of wack when i can get an item from China faster and free shipping than buying from a US company at outragious shipping charge that is only 2 states away.

US postal charges by weight then an extra charge for the size of the package and a charge depending on the zone it is coming from or going to.
sometimes i have to jack my jaw off the floor when i see $15.00 worth of milled wood costing $18.00 postage. Then out of the US some folk have even more charges in tax on the value of the items.

in the end the boss EV says you get your order regardless of what happens from us to you.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
Ev has been tracking the kit as i said it was tracked to Canada and at that point tracking stopped then weeks later i told EV to recheck to see if anything comes up. That was yesterday
lo and behold the kit is sitting in Chicago WHY! well Chicago and Canada both start with the letter C so maybe someone got confused.
i suspect at some point it will either get to the customer or back to us. If we get it back EV will resend it free shipping to the customer.

total time the kit has been floating around in the US and Canadian postal systems is now 5 weeks

we have been in business a long time and for sure saw our share of lost items, scams, and customers willing to share the cost of replacement and customes who blame us for damage or lost orders.

United States Postal Service does offer insurance for lost and damaged packages but it is not easy getting them to pay up.

At one time shipping a timbering set cost around $32.00 today it is over $100.00 so that is hard on a mom and pop operation to resend a lost item on top of the cost of the item.

it is a tough break for both the buyer and seller when neither one is at fault and both loose because of someone else's mistake.

the US postal system does have a very good track record.

something is out of wack when i can get an item from China faster and free shipping than buying from a US company at outragious shipping charge that is only 2 states away.

US postal charges by weight then an extra charge for the size of the package and a charge depending on the zone it is coming from or going to.
sometimes i have to jack my jaw off the floor when i see $15.00 worth of milled wood costing $18.00 postage. Then out of the US some folk have even more charges in tax on the value of the items.

in the end the boss EV says you get your order regardless of what happens from us to you.
Click to expand...
issues are never easy to deal with, but that is what makes the difference in a great company to work with.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
ok but that is the story i got directly from the people at the local post office

so i will look into it and see if i can get the right answer.

i can see Amazon who is responsible for the item, the payment and shipping because it is all under Amazons control. So if a package does not arrive it is Amazon fault. but like jim said if it was delivered and they prove it then they are no longer responsible what happens to it once it reaches it intended destination. But if a business fills an order and hands that package to US postal or UPS or FEDX the responsibility is now out of the hands of the business because they have no control what happens.
Click to expand...
This is not correct. Most people do not realize that 80% of items sold on Amazon are by sellers such as myself. If an item is lost, etc. I must replace it....it is an agreement I make with Amazon to be a seller. I also have to agree to Amazon's shipping time schedule. Some sellers have Amazon store and fulfill the orders but I do it myself because my items are engraved, etc. So the idea that Amazon is huge, so they can afford it....is not true.

Now, I would advise you to state in your terms that you guarantee delivery to US but international orders are not your responsibility. Be prepared to lose some orders, but it is your option.
 
gene438 said:
Now, I would advise you to state in your terms that you guarantee delivery to US but international orders are not your responsibility. Be prepared to lose some orders, but it is your option.
Click to expand...
rather than chunk away some potential international buyers, why not find a shipping carrier that can be liable for shipping? An insured and trackable package is a great solution, IMHO. Customers should have a choice of shipping, where they understand the risk by choosing a simple method.
 
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