Which comes first, the planks or the stem.

[GIG1810]

Hey Richard,

I'm curious and excited to see how your construction protocol is progressing.

As you have noticed, you can always find help here in the forum.

Best regards
Günther

 

[AllanKP69]

I looked for a plank on frame model to start with but, to no avail.

Your comment is understandable as there seems to be only two or three kit makers that offer both accurate and high quality POF kits. Did you look at Model Ship Dockyard models or Syren Ship Models? Study the build logs here at SoS to see what each manufacturer offers to see if one or more of them meet your needs.

Allan

 

[RichardT]

Thank you all for a great discussion. Its a lot to think about.
I have built a few models, all double planked. Still considering myself a novice, the first planking gives me room to try new skills and also cover up any mistakes... and there will be mistakes.

I probably could complain about the lack of manuals, photos or other support materials, but the plans are pretty good and there is a build on line that really helps me keep my place. Also, I have downloaded the work of Pirate Pete from the Euromodel site, which is very helpful. I appreciate Euromodel maintaining there site even though they appear to be out of business.

So, I will work through it slowly and hope my arthritis stays under control.
Thank you all for a great discussion.
Richard

 

[dnalley]

Obviously, I am a novice, and I am trying to achieve a hull I can work with. Can you name me a ship that was not double planked in true life? Was it made of steel? Was it a single plank canoe? Little Sailboat or what?

In the hope of your not remaining a novice forever, let me say that those are just frames. Not "bulkhead frames." Bulkheads are nauticalese for "walls." "Ceiling" is the inboard planking hung on frames. It's confusing, I know, but the sooner you are able to pick up the language, the easier ship modeling becomes. It's no different that houses, which are built with "siding," "framing," and "drywall."

So perhaps you could tell me what was between the outer and inner planking? Between the frames I mean. How did the crew repair an outer hull damage below the water line? The whole art of ship building is so intriguing to me I find this forum so fascinating, and my friends think I am nuts for trying to attempt it. All and all

Your comment is understandable as there seems to be only two or three kit makers that offer both accurate and high quality POF kits. Did you look at Model Ship Dockyard models or Syren Ship Models? Study the build logs here at SoS to see what each manufacturer offers to see if one or more of them meet your needs.

Allan

Thank you, sir, but I must attempt to finish the model I started.

 

[MThomas]

It's confusing, I know, but the sooner you are able to pick up the language, the easier ship modeling becomes. It's no different that houses, which are built with "siding," "framing," and "drywall."

... confusing indeed, kinda like how we park in 'driveways', drive on 'parkways' and.. "Never mind." I'd better stop now before the ol' 'Sledge-O-Matic' comes out!

 

[Bob Cleek]

So perhaps you could tell me what was between the outer and inner planking?

What's between the outer and inner planking is basically air. The "ceiling" (inner planking) does add some additional strength to the hull, but its most important purpose is to aid in the stowage of cargo, providing a smooth "wall" to pack cargo against and prevent its getting wet from leaking outboard plank seams. It also provides something of a ventilation system with air circulating unimpeded from the bilge up to the underside of the deck. Ceiling isn't generally carried all the way down to the keel but rather ends below at the level of the lowest deck "sole" (floor) and ends above a bit below the deck level. Additionally, in some ships and boats, there will be perforated "salt shelves" or "salt boxes" between the frames which are filled with rock salt. The purpose of the rock salt is to prevent fungal decal of the wood ("rot.") Wooden ships' holds are pretty humid, if not downright damp places and the fresh rainwater from above would absorb the salt from the salt boxes and prevent fungal decay. Wood decaying fungus requires stale air and fresh water. By keeping the air moving and the damp salty, the prerequisites for "rot" are minimized. Sailors called this practice "pickling the ship."

How did the crew repair an outer hull damage below the water line?

As quickly as possible!  Seriously, the ship's carpenter, a standard crew position, was in charge of damage control on wooden ships. Methods of repair varied depending upon the type and extent of the damage and its location. The ceiling could be removed in the area of the damage to provide access, if need be. Most repairs to maintain hull integrity were conducted from outside the ship, rather than inside, because the pressure of the water flowing into the ship generally makes repair difficult, if not impossible. If you try to caulk a leaking seam by driving the caulking material into the seam from inboard, the water pressure from outboard will "spit the caulking" out of the seam. If, on the other hand, a properly beveled seam is caulked from outboard, the pressure of the water will keep the caulking material in the seam.

The most common serious hull leak repair is called "fothering." A "fothering mat," at its simplest is a piece of canvas or a sail that is placed over the damaged area, being held in place by lines tied to its corners. On some occasions, "tow," wood shavings, and the like was thrown into the water between the fothering mat and the hull in the hope the water rushing into the hull would cause it to clog the hole. Sometimes, the canvas mat was two-ply with tow stuffed between the layers like a quilt to thicken it and provide more resistance to the water. ("Tow" is the broken bits of fiber from natural cordage that continually rained down from aloft on sailing ships and was regularly swept up from the decks. It was used for this purpose, as well as to make oakum for caulking when soaked in pine tar.) In some instances, purpose-made fothering mats consisting of multiple layers of tarred or waxed fabric were stowed aboard for emergencies. The lines on the mat's lower corners are passed under the keel and the upper corner lines are tied at the rail, sort of like a big "band aid." This fothering mat is held in place against the damaged planking by the pressure of the water, thereby slowing the leakage to a rate with which the ship's pumps can overcome. With the fothering mat in place, reinforcing repairs with wood can be done from inboard. The ship's carpenter would have had dunnage (wood for bracing cargo and general use on board for repairs, etc.) on hand for such use. Once the pumps were keeping ahead of the flow, additional fothering mats could be placed over the damaged area and battens perhaps nailed to the fothering mats to keep them in place. Pine tar could also be slathered over the fothering mats to impart greater impermeability.

The response to a catastrophic leak may take any number of other forms after the immediate danger of sinking is overcome. "Sprung planks" were a common mishap. These occurred, often at the stem, when a plank's end fastenings let go. In such instances, the carpenter would undoubtedly have attempted to pull the sprung plank back into place from inboard and secure it. Permanent repairs would have to be done in a dry dock or careened ashore at the earliest opportunity. Bottom line, no repair at sea of below the waterline damage is liable to be pretty and certainly not possible short of accessing the damage from outboard, either in a dry dock, or run aground at high tide with the work done when the tide was out. In the latter instance, repairs could be done by "careening" the ship. Careening involved running lines at a right angle to the centerline of the vessel from the masts aloft to anchors set ashore and then winching the lines so that the ship rolled on her side opposite the damage, baring her bottom to permit access to the damage.

If such knowledge interests you, and well it should if you aspire to be a sailing ship wonk like most ship modelers are, you should get a copy of John Harland's excellent book, Seamanship in the Age of Sail: An Account of Shiphandling of the Sailing Man-O-War, 1600-1860. (See: https://www.amazon.com/Seamanship-Age-Sail-Man-War/dp/1472982371) This magnificent work explains in great detail and with numerous illustrations all the evolutions necessary on sailing warships during the Age of Sail. As I have said before when asked what tools are needed to build ship models, a decent research library is the most important tool any serious ship modeler will have at their command. Books are invaluable. Even today with online publishing, a book isn't likely to get published unless it is worth reading by someone. Well researched books which have stood the test of time and become "classics" in any field are essential to those who operate in their subject matter. The internet has made it possible to easily ask questions without "doing the research" yourself, which some think is progress, but the internet has yet to provide any filter to separate the fly shit from the pepper with any reliability and now we are being told "Artificial Intelligence" is at our fingertips, but few yet understand that all AI does is average out all the "noise" on a given subject which is already on the internet and condense it for you. A lot of times, AI is correct and helpful at least as a starting point for further research "peeling the onion," but it also poses the risk of perpetuating error and "urban mythology." (Remember what Albert Einstein said: "Don't believe everything you read on the internet.") Better to buy the academically researched book recognized by the experts as the definitive work on a subject and "look it up" yourself so you know where your historical information came from. Researching maritime history is actually every bit as fascinating as building ship models and nobody ever built a great ship model without spending at least as much time reading as they did modeling.
Modern fothering mat: