Willem Barentsz by Kolderstok AD 1596

Okie Dokie, back to square one. I added the next set of 1.5 X 6mm planks working my way up the hull. But the more I looked at the Port or Starboard side the fit just was not right. :(

0F627F3A-EC96-43A7-9A1C-EC9A399E9997.jpeg

Back to where I started at the beginning of the week, these planks will also come off, mainly because of the humidity problems noted earlier. A close look at the lay of the initial plank (1.5 X 4.0 mm) on the Port side, shows that there are four frames that the glue bond has separated between the frame and the Bulkhead. In order to get a good foundation for the planks my best bet is a major do over. ( Ron can overnight the coins)
 
Pathfinder65 said:
Okie Dokie, back to square one. I added the next set of 1.5 X 6mm planks working my way up the hull. But the more I looked at the Port or Starboard side the fit just was not right. :(

View attachment 317775

Back to where I started at the beginning of the week, these planks will also come off, mainly because of the humidity problems noted earlier. A close look at the lay of the initial plank (1.5 X 4.0 mm) on the Port side, shows that there are four frames that the glue bond has separated between the frame and the Bulkhead. In order to get a good foundation for the planks my best bet is a major do over. ( Ron can overnight the coins)
Click to expand...
Would it be too late to consider using fillers, like @Heinrich did on his WBII build, to increase your bond area?
 
RDN1954 said:
Would it be too late to consider using fillers, like @Heinrich did on his WBII build, to increase your bond area?
Click to expand...
I thought about that but the "wiggle" in one laid plank carries into the next. I have one bulkhead that needs a .65mm or so addition to bring it in line with the other bulkheads. My problem is/was the first foundation plank. ie. the first to be laid "even" with the deck to match the lines scribed in the bulkheads. That plank becomes the foundation or starting point for the rest of the planking.
5CC5379A-90A3-49DE-A0FD-43E4D5D60D0A_1_201_a.jpeg
(Picture by Heinrich)

The arrow points to what I call the foundation plank and it is the basis for the rest of the planking.

I followed Heinrich's notes and got as far as placing the three planks and Wales on both sides. The hull then sat on a bookcase while I was working on another ship. I started the build again at the beginning of the week and noticed gaps where the "foundation" plank had separated from four bulkheads. The second worry was that at the stern three planks bowed out.

040DEF60-71F3-472F-8CCC-F8F5AE6F7CA2_1_201_a.jpeg

When I added the next set of planks the distortion became worse. I spent a bit of time shimming, wiggling and diddling trying to make a fix.

I don't know if the above makes any sense, but it's easier to start over.
 
From the picture it is impossible to tell that there any issues with the planking, but you will know best. A man has to do what a man has to do. Do you edge-glue the planks as well, Jan?
 
Pathfinder65 said:
I thought about that but the "wiggle" in one laid plank carries into the next. I have one bulkhead that needs a .65mm or so addition to bring it in line with the other bulkheads. My problem is/was the first foundation plank. ie. the first to be laid "even" with the deck to match the lines scribed in the bulkheads. That plank becomes the foundation or starting point for the rest of the planking.
View attachment 317779
(Picture by Heinrich)

The arrow points to what I call the foundation plank and it is the basis for the rest of the planking.

I followed Heinrich's notes and got as far as placing the three planks and Wales on both sides. The hull then sat on a bookcase while I was working on another ship. I started the build again at the beginning of the week and noticed gaps where the "foundation" plank had separated from four bulkheads. The second worry was that at the stern three planks bowed out.

View attachment 317778

When I added the next set of planks the distortion became worse. I spent a bit of time shimming, wiggling and diddling trying to make a fix.

I don't know if the above makes any sense, but it's easier to start over.
Click to expand...
So in short, it's the first "foundation" plank giving you the issues, after sett mg the WB aside for some time? Did both "foundation" planks become detached or is it one side only?
Did you, by any chance, check the straightness of your keel in all three directions?
 
@RDN1954 Johan, I can categorically say that the keel will be as straight as the proverbial arrow. I don't know which glue Jan uses - if it is Titebond, I am not surprised. I have recommended Bison D2 to Jan - the wood that is used in the Kolderstok kits love that glue (don't laugh:)). Unfortunately, I cannot get Bison in China, but I have struck it very lucky with the Chinese PVA I use. It is simply brilliant!
 
Heinrich said:
@RDN1954 Johan, I can categorically say that the keel will be as straight as the proverbial arrow. I don't know which glue Jan uses - if it is Titebond, I am not surprised. I have recommended Bison D2 to Jan - the wood that is used in the Kolderstok kits love that glue (don't laugh:)). Unfortunately, I cannot get Bison in China, but I have struck it very lucky with the Chinese PVA I use. It is simply brilliant!
Click to expand...
@Heinrich, I was not implying that the keel, as supplied bij Kolderstok, isn't straight, but as soon as you start using adhesive, it is not unthinkable that parts see warping. I've observed the same phenomenon on my BN build, where the initial keel assembly was shown to be as straight as an arrow, but after three months no more. Not caused by faulty (warped) parts, nor by the builder, just the environment, claiming it's dues.
 
RDN1954 said:
@Heinrich, I was not implying that the keel, as supplied bij Kolderstok, isn't straight, but as soon as you start using adhesive, it is not unthinkable that parts see warping. I've observed the same phenomenon on my BN build, where the initial keel assembly was shown to be as straight as an arrow, but after three months no more. Not caused by faulty (warped) parts, nor by the builder, just the environment, claiming it's dues.
Click to expand...
Okiedokie - now I am with you Johan! Thumbsup
 
dockattner said:
I am deeply worried about the debonding. What will happen in a year?
Click to expand...
Me too, Paul. I simply do not understand that. I planked my hull in the middle of winter with temperatures of zero degrees, Now, we are in the middle of summer with temps of 38 degrees Celsius and 98% humidity some days - no issues.
 
Jan I now went back and re-read your whole log. I see you do use the D3 Kolderstok glue that Hans supplies - which is basically Bison D3. The only difference between D3 and D2 is that D3 is waterproof and D2 is not. Thus, there is no issue with the glue. used Now, I am even more confused as to what caused the debonding! :( :(

Maybe, apply more glue and clamp more aggressively and for longer periods. The sway of this hull puts a lot of stress on the hull planks.
 
Pathfinder65 said:
Okie Dokie, back to square one. I added the next set of 1.5 X 6mm planks working my way up the hull. But the more I looked at the Port or Starboard side the fit just was not right. :(

View attachment 317775

Back to where I started at the beginning of the week, these planks will also come off, mainly because of the humidity problems noted earlier. A close look at the lay of the initial plank (1.5 X 4.0 mm) on the Port side, shows that there are four frames that the glue bond has separated between the frame and the Bulkhead. In order to get a good foundation for the planks my best bet is a major do over. ( Ron can overnight the coins)
Click to expand...
Good morning Jan- Eish. Redo’s. Part of the hobby for sure- I think Ron better open a mint for the SOS guys. ROTF . Cheers Grant
 
Heinrich said:
From the picture it is impossible to tell that there any issues with the planking, but you will know best. A man has to do what a man has to do. Do you edge-glue the planks as well, Jan?
Click to expand...
Yes I edge glued and glued to the bulkheads. The entire plank assembly is/was
RDN1954 said:
So in short, it's the first "foundation" plank giving you the issues, after sett mg the WB aside for some time? Did both "foundation" planks become detached or is it one side only?
Did you, by any chance, check the straightness of your keel in all three directions?
Click to expand...
Both sides were affected. On the Port side bulkhead #3,4,8 and 9. On the Starboard side bulkheads #3,5,6 and 10. The straightness of the keel is OK. I used a caliper to check the spacing between all bulkheads at the keel and also at the deck level on both the Port and Starboard sides. No problems there,

My thoughts lead to coefficient of expansion. I’ve been storing my partial completed hulls on the top shelf of a bookcase. Unfortunately I never gave any thought to the full sun from the adjacent window most of the day and our high humidity this time of year.
 
Pathfinder65 said:
Yes I edge glued and glued to the bulkheads. The entire plank assembly is/was

Both sides were affected. On the Port side bulkhead #3,4,8 and 9. On the Starboard side bulkheads #3,5,6 and 10. The straightness of the keel is OK. I used a caliper to check the spacing between all bulkheads at the keel and also at the deck level on both the Port and Starboard sides. No problems there,

My thoughts lead to coefficient of expansion. I’ve been storing my partial completed hulls on the top shelf of a bookcase. Unfortunately I never gave any thought to the full sun from the adjacent window most of the day and our high humidity this time of year.
Click to expand...
Yes Jan - the direct sunlight, I think more than the humidity, or then in combination with the humidity, were probably the culprits. You are right - if the adhesion is compromised on so many bulkheads, then best is just to redo everything.
 
Heinrich said:
Yes Jan - the direct sunlight, I think more than the humidity, or then in combination with the humidity, were probably the culprits. You are right - if the adhesion is compromised on so many bulkheads, then best is just to redo everything.
Click to expand...
It's all part of Heinrich's plot to get everyone who builds this ship to build it twice.
 
Pathfinder65 said:
Yes I edge glued and glued to the bulkheads. The entire plank assembly is/was

Both sides were affected. On the Port side bulkhead #3,4,8 and 9. On the Starboard side bulkheads #3,5,6 and 10. The straightness of the keel is OK. I used a caliper to check the spacing between all bulkheads at the keel and also at the deck level on both the Port and Starboard sides. No problems there,

My thoughts lead to coefficient of expansion. I’ve been storing my partial completed hulls on the top shelf of a bookcase. Unfortunately I never gave any thought to the full sun from the adjacent window most of the day and our high humidity this time of year.
Click to expand...
My bet is on the combination of heat ánd humidity. Especially if you bonded the planks with tension against the grain to follow the decks curvature, which would result in peel stresses on the bond in itself. Add the heat and humidity to the mix and you have yourself a nice recipe for "disaster".
 
Heinrich said:
@RDN1954 Johan, I can categorically say that the keel will be as straight as the proverbial arrow. I don't know which glue Jan uses - if it is Titebond, I am not surprised. I have recommended Bison D2 to Jan - the wood that is used in the Kolderstok kits love that glue (don't laugh:)). Unfortunately, I cannot get Bison in China, but I have struck it very lucky with the Chinese PVA I use. It is simply brilliant!
Click to expand...
Hi Heinrich, You are correct on the keel. I use Gorilla brand PVA which dries clear. Bison is hard to find here. The only Bison D2 sources (other than their CA) I’ve found are in Europe. I’ve had no luck trying to order from England or Poland.
 
Heinrich said:
Me too, Paul. I simply do not understand that. I planked my hull in the middle of winter with temperatures of zero degrees, Now, we are in the middle of summer with temps of 38 degrees Celsius and 98% humidity some days - no issues.
Click to expand...
I‘m thinking that fully planked and sealed there would not be much of a distortion problem. The hull in this case had the minimum amount of planks glued up. Three to a side, so there was a lot of wiggle room at the top and bottom.
 
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