Xebec Cazador Ocre fantasy ?

[Mash]

A very general article, from which one can actually infer nothing precise. We are probably dealing here more with a translation problem between three languages and nautical technical terms. Military Chebecks did not have a "jib sail". It would make no sense or even benefit. I only know of a very old museum model with 28 guns, beginning 15th century, whose authenticity is in doubt. Different with two-masted ships, mainly in non-military use. There are some, albeit few, illustrations. At the time in question there were also other, very similar types of ships in use (Pinque, Tartane etc) where this often happened.
Spanish Árbol foque - German Klüverbaum - English Boom ?? Foque as mentioned in the article - German boom - English Boom ?? I think the lady is confusing ship parts and means the bowsprit - baupés - Bugspriet. This in turn served to control the lateen sails and not to attach a kind of spinnaker.
It's a pity that I don't have access to the plan from the book. In this small illustration, the difference to the Ocre model does not seem to be that big from a purely visual point of view.

 

[Jeffrey Modell]

Above photo shows the "plans" in El Aresenal De Caragena En El Siglo XVIII for El Cazidor. Nothing more I can give you on that.....

I have found a Spanish-English nautical dictionary that translates foque as jib, but also another source that states:


and another ....

"Jib-boom. Botalon de foque."


I do not understand why a jib sail would not be of benefit getting every last bit of speed. Can you explain?

 

[Mash]

Many model builders tend to orientate themselves towards idealized ideas, to put their often excellent craftsmanship in the foreground. That is of course o.k., it is their personal decision and pleasure in the model. I too have such models. This usually deviates considerably from the real ship.
Speed was just one advantage of the Chebeke. Another was the maneuverability in coastal waters for which she was built. A jib brings no advantage there. Why should one endanger the stability and maneuverability by an unplanned additional sailing? You can't just load a ship's construction done just like that with additional sails. Another example: The armament in model construction is almost always represented by guns of the same type. Which in reality was mostly not the case, not even in the official navy. Different calibers and sizes were used, depending on availability or financial means. The information recorded in the documents was the wishful thinking or planning basis, but not the reality. This results in a different weight, a different draft, a different sailing behavior. But the literature on this has long been written.
There are some old drawings and paintings showing Chebeks with some kind of jib in certain wind conditions, if the sail position of the illustrations can be trusted. They are always merchant ships, often two-masted, not naval ships.

 

[Jeffrey Modell]

Jabeque Liebre (Hare) has a lot of fancy work. Unfortunately, the image was copyrighted.

 

[Jeffrey Modell]

Pate 310 of the excellent new book Spanish Warships in the Age of Sail 1700 - 1860 by Winfield, Tredrea, Perez and Felip, states that the following Plate in the Album of the Marques de la Victoria represents the plan of 4 jabeques that include Cazador. There is no citation linking the drawing with specific ships.

 

[Mash]

Pate 310 of the excellent new book Spanish Warships in the Age of Sail 1700 - 1860 by Winfield, Tredrea, Perez and Felip, states that the following Plate in the Album of the Marques de la Victoria represents the plan of 4 jabeques that include Cazador. There is no citation linking the drawing with specific ships.

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Pate 310 of the excellent new book Spanish Warships in the Age of Sail 1700 - 1860 by Winfield, Tredrea, Perez and Felip, states that the following Plate in the Album of the Marques de la Victoria represents the plan of 4 jabeques that include Cazador. There is no citation linking the drawing with specific ships.

Thanks for the info. I will order it and see if there are any new findings. One of the bigger unanswered questions is still the painting of the ships. After all, they are not private, but warships, mostly built with a constantly empty treasury.