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I don't think it's out of your leagueI don't think I could dig up much more then you. Those informations are super interesting. Maybe somebody else could add some more as this level of deatails is just out of my leage
Case and point hereI don't think it's out of your league) sometimes you can simply fall on something which isn't main knowledge and is interesting; it's how I happened to find the pic of the stern of the unidentified ship
the rest is more or less obsession
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You're a builder after my own heart, WojitasS !I think I'll stay with Deagostinis dimensions. It needs some work to make the stern galleries proportional and couple of other things too, but It's not that big truble, that little bashing can't solve. Thanks for the help
Hi; yes, I have it as part of my ''library''Did you had already a look into this interesting book by Jean Boudriot?
LES VAISSEAUX de 74 à 120 canons - Historique 1650-1850" by Jean Boudriot & Hubert Berti
Book Review: LES VAISSEAUX de 74 à 120 canons Historique 1650-1850 by Jean Boudriot & Hubert Berti available directly from ancre in french language, unfortunately in moment no other languages https://ancre.fr/fr/ouvrages-de-base/67-vaisseaux-les-de-74-a-120-canons.html 74- to 120-GUN...shipsofscale.com
I don't have. Till there will be an english translation I don't think I could benefit much, as I don't know neither italian or french. The translators don't get the marine terminology.Did you had already a look into this interesting book by Jean Boudriot?
Well, if you have questions on the book or anything related to those ships, I'd be glad to help you with that; I do have a big ship libraryTo start with the easy one
I don't have. Till there will be an english translation I don't think I could benefit much as I don't know neither italian or french. The translators don't get the marine terminology.
I'm sorry to disappiont you, but I don't longer have such belief.You're a builder after my own heart, WojitasS !
Well, at least you'll have proper plans for that oneI'm sorry to disappiont you, but I don't longer have such belief.
But firstly some pictures.
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Photo from this angle explains everything. Like I said a year ago. I can't match the Apollo mold with a model or a model with a scetch of stern. The solution to it would be to schrink floors of galleries to make the pillars straight, but it has consequences. Now you need to rescale and resize everything else. I have doubts if it can be done right. Heller has almost everything(Yes I found one small mistake in it), besides there's a ton of other wooden scratch build Soleil in different stages and qualities and one done right doesn't make a difference. If I were to build it I would have to have a hull that is made according to some plans, but no kitbashing- no point in that
As for myself L'Ambitieux is enuogh for me. If I could make it at least in 60% as this on I'll be happy man
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Hi, it carified some thing, still it's confusing. I need to rethink that. I hope I can response sooner then in next yearHisorry it's been quite a while, but selling, and moving from a house to an apartment requires some logistic with the furniture and all the stuff
)) I finally moved last month and lived in a box labyrinth environment for all that time; but I have mostly finished now...
So, first questions first; in my previous replies I jumped from that drawing being potentially the Terrble, to not be the terrible. that is because after initially writing the option of it being the Terrible, I found out that the stern design was a Berain design and not a Caffieri design, so much closer to the St-Philippe than the later Foudroyant; one funadental difference between the two is easy to identify simply by looking at the stern of the St-Philippe, and the structure of the later Foudroyant because they both represent the fundamental difference between them. If Berain closes the side galleies almost completely, Caffieri sticks more with at least the middle and top galleries being of open concept.
You also have to consider that beginning in the 1680's, the side galleries are only 3 french feet wide ( from the hull to the outer side) on each side, as compared to the earlier constructions which were 6 french feet wide. Therefore, if Berin closes all its side galleries, and the Terrible was an artistic work from him, that ship had enclosed galleries and that would not correspond to the drawing.
On the next queston, the 1723-25 Foudroyant is the same ship; it all depends on whether you consider the initial laying down of the construction, or the time it actually is put in the water. In the case of the Foudroyant, the French finances were not great for the naval activities, and the Foudroyant being a ''superfluous'' construction mainly for the king's standing, it didn't have a prioritized time frame for its construction, and it was idled a few times for other more important work on other ships; 1723 was when it was laid down, and 1725 when structurally completed and written down as an active ship of the fleet; there would be still more delays for the decors, but I have not found a timeline for that part.
I do not know who made that drawing, and the ship's name remains a mystery; other options could be ships built in Rochefort docks, But there is no history on those. It doesn't mean I won't be looking for a possible identification, but not right away)
Oh, and as fo the hypothesis of it being the 1693 Foudroyant (initially the Soleil Royal), though there are issues with the drwaing as for that reference, it is still an avenue.......
When I said the the 1725 Foudroyant had been based on the 1692 Terrible, it was more the the structural similarity than the art work itself..
I hope this clarifies your questions a bit)))
Have a great evenng (or day)
At least that is certainThat ship was conceived by Pangialo, who also made the first real Ambitieux some time in the late 1680's the first real named one. The plans are from the 1680 original design.
Always happy to helpHi, it carified some thing, still it's confusing. I need to rethink that. I hope I can response sooner then in next year
At least that is certain
Thanks for responding and sharing your knowledge.
Good dayAlways happy to help![]()
No, I didn't say it was a spanish ship, since the flag does not correspond to anything of that period; it could be dutch, spanish or french, but from apprx 100 years later, although I have not found anything that looks close to that.....Sooo, I did guess well it was a spanish flag
As for all mentioned ship I think you have much more chance of solving that riddle.
I found some more pictures of Royal Louis with figurehead and carvings form Paris model of RL, but need more time describe it
Thr Royal Louis in the naval museum of paris is the 1759 version.......No, I didn't say it was a spanish ship, since the flag does not correspond to anything of that period; it could be dutch, spanish or french, but from apprx 100 years later, although I have not found anything that looks close to that.....
I gave the options of two spanish ship names because those two are the only ones of that period that would correspond in terms of size....
The dutch also had a few, but their type of decor doesn't correspond to anything close to what's drawn.