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Yeah I know, it was a joke
Yes. It might be QG from 1759 and stern+bow 1743, but I'm not sure of the date, because I found it on my disk without description
Soleil Royal 1669 by Oliveras P. in Navios - planset information
Yes. It might be QG from 1759 and stern+bow 1743, but I'm not sure of the date, because I found it on my disk without description
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I did a little digging on the supposed 1745 RL. In the @Hubac’s Historian SR build log found very interesting document. It has translations of bow and stern elements french -> english, upon a lot of other things. I didn't study it deeply enough just took some informations.
467/476
This is drew by Charles-Philippe Caffieri and represents Royal Louis, 1758
And those anonymous sketches are dated 1758
Also some quite interesting anonymous first rate sketch.
467/476
This is drew by Charles-Philippe Caffieri and represents Royal Louis, 1758
And those anonymous sketches are dated 1758
Also some quite interesting anonymous first rate sketch.
Hi; I already have that work
and his work references the same books I researched, and I possess, and draws on the same conclusions)I undertand you have not been able to translate all my document and once you do that you will unnderstand what I'm saying here. The only big difference is that he concentrates on the sculpting work and the influences which brought about te subject carved; It is quite heavy to read, and it's one reason I tried to stir clear of getting bogged down in details which might not interest the reader as much. It wasn't the purpose of the document I made. Rather, I chose to try to debunk a lot of the mis-used information because of the lack of context in time and interpretation. In the process, I tried to tell a story, give a timeline of the events in order to create a certain order in all that information; in the proces I myself learned a lot about the subject and today I feel there isn't much out there that I have not mentionned, dicussed, and debatedin that document; I also tried to de-mystify the story of the Soleil Royal and give it the proper noteriety where it is due, and not give it where it isn't; so, Portanier digs deep in the influences of the arts, I gave a more ''down to earth'' chain of events.....
I hope you can manage to translate it, because it answers so many questions, and at the same time asks others...All those drwaings, I alredy have them, and maybe one or two are not in that document, because they don't necessarily relate to it as much...
As for the stern gallery drawings I sent you, he confirms exactly what I wrote; the drawings are for the 1759 Royal Louis; there are two styles of ''bottle'' designs, and thatcould be because the one which is more ""Caffieri influenced'' was actually designed for the 1743 Royal Louis that burned before being put to water..
Sorry if this is a bit long, I didn't find a way to compress it
))))))))
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First things first. I have english translation of your document, just forgot to take a look into it once again. Last timeI just briefly gone through for the sake of our riddle ship. All the dates, ships, refits and modifications were too much for me and at that time I got really confused, so I only focused on Foudroyant. Now it will make more sense as I can distinguish some of the ships.
As for the information about RL in that document. I thought dates on wikipedia were wrong(as the ofen do) because sketches in that link have archive numbers, so it makes them more authentic I guess you always have to be careful
You can make it even longer I got no problem. It will be even more fun
As for the information about RL in that document. I thought dates on wikipedia were wrong(as the ofen do) because sketches in that link have archive numbers, so it makes them more authentic I guess you always have to be careful
You can make it even longer I got no problem. It will be even more fun
Last edited:
Ahhh.... usually, longer bores people outFirst things first. I have english translation of your document, just forgot to take a look into it once again. Last timeI just briefly gone through for the sake of our riddle ship. All the dates, ships, refits and modifications were too much for me and at that time I got really confused, so I only focused on Foudroyant. Now it will make more sense as I can distinguish some of the ships.
As for the information about RL in that document. I thought dates on wikipedia were wrong(as the ofen do) because sketches in that link have archive numbers, so it makes them more authentic I guess you always have to be careful
You can make it even longer I got no problem. It will be even more fun
)))))Again, for questions about the document, or anything related for that matter, ask and I'll be glad to answer, or do the research ( like that damn drawing that obsesses me)
))))
For the rest of us, could you please define what caffiery style is? Do you have pictures?
I will send you some tomorrow; but for reference, the St-Philippe, the Soleil Royal rebuilt, would be of Berain design, meaning all, or almost all enclosed side galleries, with removable panels, with an orderly and symmetric layout; Caffiery, quite contrary to the official rules concerning side galleries, designed upper simily balconies with a mostly tall top window. On the middle of the galleries would be balconies, sometimes only half openned, but a true balcony; the bottom one is closed with a real, or simily oblong window, sometimes hiding a middle battery canon, all richly decorated with different high profile figures. Some examples would be the Louis XV at the museum, the 1725 Foudroyant... two decks sometimes had both influences in early 1700's
Hi: So, here are some images for the above explanations; the first three are mainly Berain infuence and the next four are Caffieri influence. Always bear in mind that all were approved by Berain since he was the king's painter since the departute of LeBrun in 1683; Berain acted as the replacement since that time but only got the official ttle in 1691.
Happy Birthday! 
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Herman, Jim thank you very much for wishesHappy Birthday!
Hi; happy birthday Wojtas, though I am a bit late on that)
So, I found some interesting information, amongst which a pic I had been looikng for for a while; Actually, two images; the first is a subject about the machine invented in Rochefort in the early 1680's to install and remove masts. To understand, before that machine, the common way was to tilt the ship on it's side, like they did foe all hull repairs, and pull out the masts more or less horizontally. with the ''machine'' they now could pull the mast up, tilt it and remove to change, or install on new ships. The first image depicts that machine and the second is a drawing showing a hull repair of the Intrepid, a 151 feet three decker from the year 1690... What's interesting besides the ''mast machine'' is the ship itself, and the clues for its identification.....I will let you look and analyse those clues; the ship's identification isn't known, but it's one of 4 or 5 three deckers of that period built in Rochefort....
The details of the ship's period are what's most interesting......
)So, I found some interesting information, amongst which a pic I had been looikng for for a while; Actually, two images; the first is a subject about the machine invented in Rochefort in the early 1680's to install and remove masts. To understand, before that machine, the common way was to tilt the ship on it's side, like they did foe all hull repairs, and pull out the masts more or less horizontally. with the ''machine'' they now could pull the mast up, tilt it and remove to change, or install on new ships. The first image depicts that machine and the second is a drawing showing a hull repair of the Intrepid, a 151 feet three decker from the year 1690... What's interesting besides the ''mast machine'' is the ship itself, and the clues for its identification.....I will let you look and analyse those clues; the ship's identification isn't known, but it's one of 4 or 5 three deckers of that period built in Rochefort....
The details of the ship's period are what's most interesting......
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Thanks for the wishes
The book attached to the Saint Philippe describes it as some unidentified vessel with decorations similar to SP. It's similar to our riddle ship, but much different in details. Did you find out something about it?
I mirrored the picture from the book
The book attached to the Saint Philippe describes it as some unidentified vessel with decorations similar to SP. It's similar to our riddle ship, but much different in details. Did you find out something about it?
I mirrored the picture from the book
Hi; I haven't found it's identification; all I could see from the image is it's a ship fromm 1688 or later, because of the stern structure and the red color; it also is a 155 to 160 feet three decker with no forecastle, therefore a 84 to 94 canon arrangement. It cannot be either of the late 80's Ambitieux ( which were built in Rochefort) because of the stern board sculpture. Of the list of ships built in Rochefort during that period, 4 ships could correspond to that; 1- the 1691 Victorieux (156 ft. 1650tx, 88 to 94 canons), 2-the 1691 Fulminant (158 ft. 1800 tx, 96 to 98 canons), 3- the 1692 Magnifique ( 154 ft. 1560 tx, 86 to 88 canons), and the 1694 Fier (158 ft. 1750 tx, 90 to 94 canons).....
What's left to do is identify the stern carving, or interpret it
) All the ship names given could correspond to the design of the carving)))
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Some time ago I mentioned Heller did one mistake in their SR model. Eventually I found two mistakes, but the other one is even smaller than the first that I'm going to present you. I didn't want just to point it and do nothing about it, I fixed it)kind of). It turned out It looks bad only on photos or I spend too much time looking at Paris SR model
. The mistake is related to a cathead support, it is little too big and don't have all flowers that original model has, but as I'm looking at them at the same time.... more like storm in a teacup. Fun little project with use of some existing models joined and processed together.
So here is 3d printed vs deagostini vs heller.
Don't mind the bend it's a little print mistake, I just don't want to use any more resin
)kind of). It turned out It looks bad only on photos or I spend too much time looking at Paris SR model. The mistake is related to a cathead support, it is little too big and don't have all flowers that original model has, but as I'm looking at them at the same time.... more like storm in a teacup. Fun little project with use of some existing models joined and processed together.So here is 3d printed vs deagostini vs heller.
Don't mind the bend it's a little print mistake, I just don't want to use any more resin
Hi; the resin ones look better; however, since I will lower those anchor beams to under the forecastle top, I will need to cut them anyway...Some time ago I mentioned Heller did one mistake in their SR model. Eventually I found two mistakes, but the other one is even smaller than the first that I'm going to present you. I didn't want just to point it and do nothing about it, I fixed it
So here is 3d printed vs deagostini vs heller.
Don't mind the bend it's a little print mistake, I just don't want to use any more resin
View attachment 483446
View attachment 483447
My plan is to place them where they are on the drawing of the Royal duc, and that means cutting them and realigning all the arches; it is doable since I have already figured out how to re-locate them to make space for the new cathead position, while also bringing them more in a ''V'' shape as with the Royal Duc when seen from the front....There will be some decoration where the arches line up with the front of the hull.
I'm not even there yet; I still need to motivate myself to square off my top gunport row, which means altering and cutting off some the decor........But I did do premilinary work to see if it was possible by cutting and re-aligning the arches, seeing what I would need for the decoration,trying to stay within the theme of the ship, and I'm pretty much clear as to what I will need to do... It will change the look of the whole front part of the ship; it will also allow me to put some small 6 lbs cannons pointing in front as chase cannons on the forecastle, not having those big beam running at an angle on the deck. I will also build a very low front wall and fix the guardrail on top after cutting down part of the vertical supports'height, then paint and decorate the upper front with similar theme and a center crest....So, in one word, much closer in layout to the Royal Duc...The actual front part on the kit would be from the late 80's and 90's.....