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Bowsprit of Soleil Royal

Joined
Jan 4, 2026
Messages
46
Points
48

Hi everyone!
I read somewhere in SOS that Soleil Royal'S bowsprit was of center to the right, as customary of 17th century war ships.
Is this true? does anyone have a picture of the front of SR to show the layout?
I'm building it right now and I need the info soon, to make modifications if necessary....
 
Bonjour Guillaume
IF, and that is a big if I remember correctly someone asked the Musée national de la Marine in Paris about this some years ago and they gave a response. I have no idea what that was as it has been a long time. If you contact them, hopefully they will have an answer for Soleil Royal. Have you studied photos of the Jean-Baptiste Tanneron model of SR held by the museum? There appears to be an offset but difficult to tell without asking the curator staff.
Allan
 
Bonjour Guillaume
IF, and that is a big if I remember correctly someone asked the Musée national de la Marine in Paris about this some years ago and they gave a response. I have no idea what that was as it has been a long time. If you contact them, hopefully they will have an answer for Soleil Royal. Have you studied photos of the Jean-Baptiste Tanneron model of SR held by the museum? There appears to be an offset but difficult to tell without asking the curator staff.
Allan
Thank you very much Allen!!
I spent about 6 hours on internet, wasa museet, Pinterest, model ship world, the finished gallery of models of SOS, and all I can see is centred bowsprit.......
 
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I read somewhere in SOS that Soleil Royal'S bowsprit was of center to the right, as customary of 17th century war ships.

I spent about 6 hours on internet, wasa museet, Pinterest, model ship world, the finished gallery of models of SOS, and all I can see is centred bowsprit...


I have heard that soon everything will also be on TikTok, but for now, this specific information is quite easy to find in written and graphic 17th-century French sources, along with some additional interesting comments.

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I spent about 6 hours on internet, wasa museet, Pinterest, model ship world, the finished gallery of models of SOS, and all I can see is centred bowsprit...
You are to be commended for doing the research.Thumbsup I am curious to see you post information that you find from the curators if you can reach out to them.
 
You are to be commended for doing the research.Thumbsup I am curious to see you post information that you find from the curators if you can reach out to them.
I just sent a request to the Musée de la marine in Paris. We'll see if they reply. I sent a request to Ancre company for plans a month ago, and had no feedback at all. I 'll keep you posted on my quest.
 
Nice having a chat with another model enthusiast!
Ah!! sorry to be rude, but so, Ancre company are jerks!HAHAHA!! thanks for letting me know, I won't waste one more second with them.
They are not jerks. They deserve respect for collecting a wealth of historical information in one place that we, as modelers, have easy access to. Besides, if you really want more information about SR you can buy monoraph about L'Ambitieux or go through

https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/...tial-scratch-build-by-hubac’s-historian.4330/
You'll find a lot of knowledge there. but you have to dig it on your own

 
They are not jerks. They deserve respect for collecting a wealth of historical information in one place that we, as modelers, have easy access to. Besides, if you really want more information about SR you can buy monoraph about L'Ambitieux or go through

https://shipsofscale.com/sosforums/threads/soleil-royal-by-heller-an-extensive-modification-and-partial-scratch-build-by-hubac’s-historian.4330/
You'll find a lot of knowledge there. but you have to dig it on your own

Thing is, in 2026, just replying a few words would show a little respect, and a months time is enough. I am a musician, and I suffered a little from talented people who treated everyone like S--t, just because they are great.... Ancre are AMAZING, but treating potential customers like they do (or so it seems) doesn't cut it for me.....
 
Thing is, in 2026, just replying a few words would show a little respect, and a months time is enough. I am a musician, and I suffered a little from talented people who treated everyone like S--t, just because they are great.... Ancre are AMAZING, but treating potential customers like they do (or so it seems) doesn't cut it for me.....
Thanks for your time and help, by the way. MUCH appreciated. Talk to you soon hopefully.
Greetings from Québec!!
 
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Thing is, in 2026, just replying a few words would show a little respect, and a months time is enough. I am a musician, and I suffered a little from talented people who treated everyone like S--t, just because they are great.... Ancre are AMAZING, but treating potential customers like they do (or so it seems) doesn't cut it for me...

Hi Guillaume,

It is important to be aware that Ancre's goal is not to provide selfless assistance, but rather to run a typical commercial venture aimed at making money. Consequently, they do not offer reprints of works on shipbuilding from that era for sale in order to later ruin their own business by providing free information on demand, and which can be found in these paid reprints by Ancre, or by doing other people's research for them. To be clear, this does not refer to Ancre's numerous monographs on the modern reconstruction of specific ships, but to reprints of older works on shipbuilding of a more general nature. I happen to buy and read these reprints (in addition to Ancre's modern reconstruction monographs), but indeed, from what I can see, the overwhelming majority are not even aware of the existence of the former, let alone their content. And yes, one has to spend many thousands of euros on all these publications.

Returning to your specific question about the bowsprit. A few weeks ago, in response to your query, I showed you the layout of the decks of French capital ships by reproducing some graphic plates from the original work of that time. If you hadn't ignored those graphics, you would have also found the answer to your current issue with the bowsprit there.

In addition, I was also able to easily find a fairly short but very informative text description of the important principles of installing bowsprits on French ships in a reprinted manuscript originating from Toulon and dating from 1683. but what is the point of quoting it when, in practice, at least 95% of such help provided on the forum (and, after all, requiring some effort and time to prepare) turns out to be useless and pointless for various reasons? And I don't think I have as much determination and consistency as Allan, who is truly tireless in this particular activity, despite the enormous inertia he encounters :).

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And I don't think I have as much determination and consistency as Allan, who is truly tireless in this particular activity, despite the enormous inertia he encounters
Thank you for the kind words Waldemar, :) :)
To go further, I did not see the layouts of the decks of French capital ships . Sorry if this being lazy, but where are these?
THANK YOU
Allan
 
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To go further, I did not see the layouts of the decks of French capital ships . Sorry if this being lazy, but where are these?

Oh, you must have seen them, since you even left your signature next to them:


One can add other plates from the same album to those as well. The upper one, in particular, nicely illustrates a certain structural feature that was explicitly mentioned in the 1683 Toulon manuscript.


plate 47 - Longitudinal cross-section of an armed and equipped vessel illustration from the At...jpg

plate 49 - Prow of a vessel at anchor illustration from the Atlas de Colbert - .jpg
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Hi Guillaume,

It is important to be aware that Ancre's goal is not to provide selfless assistance, but rather to run a typical commercial venture aimed at making money. Consequently, they do not offer reprints of works on shipbuilding from that era for sale in order to later ruin their own business by providing free information on demand, and which can be found in these paid reprints by Ancre, or by doing other people's research for them. To be clear, this does not refer to Ancre's numerous monographs on the modern reconstruction of specific ships, but to reprints of older works on shipbuilding of a more general nature. I happen to buy and read these reprints (in addition to Ancre's modern reconstruction monographs), but indeed, from what I can see, the overwhelming majority are not even aware of the existence of the former, let alone their content. And yes, one has to spend many thousands of euros on all these publications.

Returning to your specific question about the bowsprit. A few weeks ago, in response to your query, I showed you the layout of the decks of French capital ships by reproducing some graphic plates from the original work of that time. If you hadn't ignored those graphics, you would have also found the answer to your current issue with the bowsprit there.

In addition, I was also able to easily find a fairly short but very informative text description of the important principles of installing bowsprits on French ships in a reprinted manuscript originating from Toulon and dating from 1683. but what is the point of quoting it when, in practice, at least 95% of such help provided on the forum (and, after all, requiring some effort and time to prepare) turns out to be useless and pointless for various reasons? And I don't think I have as much determination and consistency as Allan, who is truly tireless in this particular activity, despite the enormous inertia he encounters :).

.​
Allô Waldemar,
Let me clarify a few things, because I sense we're off on the wrong foot, which I don't want at all.....
I did use those beautiful pages on deck layout you sent me, thank you again. But I used them for the decks only.
I just looked again, with bowsprit vision in mind, on Pouf! there is the layout! Thank you for these plates again!
But I wonder now why everyone says bowsprits in France were deported to the right in the 1700, when I see the drawings of Colbert?
Ever since I started building boats, I looked for information to make my model accurate, and that goes back to 1990.
Information is not that easy to find, in my experience. A month ago , when I discovered Ancre, I was overwhelmed!
So I wanted to buy one of their monographs, of course....
The communication said : Thank you for your interest, blablabla, we'll get back to you shortly.
Nothing after 6 weeks! I don't care about the money, I want info, that's all....
Last, I take in consideration everything people send me, because the help I receive from all of you guys is invaluable.
For all of your recent help, Waldemar, thank you very much.
 
By the way, Waldemar, what is the name of the Colbert book?
I would like to purchase it, if not too expensive? I live in Québec, and postage could be an issue,
if the book is heavy
 
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The communication said : Thank you for your interest, blablabla, we'll get back to you shortly.
Nothing after 6 weeks! I don't care about the money, I want info, that's all....

Yet, apparently they care about time and money and that’s their business model, or perhaps they simply enjoy being asked the same thing over and over again. It’s a fairly common trait among many people, and one has to take it into account. I, too, had to remind them a few times to send the missing plate from the album La Marine Française by Morel Fatio, which I had previously bought from Ancre, before they finally sent it after several dozen months of reminders :).

But I wonder now why everyone says bowsprits in France were deported to the right in the 1700, when I see the drawings of Colbert?

Apart from the plates from Colbert’s album, there are many other period illustrations and plans depicting 17th-century French ships, showing the bowsprit precisely over the stem, rather than off-centre (see sample graphic at the bottom of this post). I do not know why model-makers, instead of consulting the sources, have an unstoppable tendency to copy even the most absurd solutions from one another.


what is the name of the Colbert book?
I would like to purchase it, if not too expensive? I live in Québec, and postage could be an issue,
if the book is heavy

You can find all the information regarding the purchase of the so-called Colbert album on the Ancre website. The quality of the reproductions is excellent, and what’s more, this particular reprint includes commentary, and perhaps most importantly for some, a transcription of the original French text for each plate and its English translation. It weights about 1.33 kg.


If you’re not yet ready to spend money on such trifles as period sources, I can send you the entire set of plates from the Colbert album via PM, which I found online; however, their quality is incomparably worse than the Ancre reprint and they come without any commentary, transcription or translation.


* * *​

Just a very small selection of contemporary graphics displaying French 17-century vessels, both naval and merchant, sporting on-center bowsprits:


Coupe d'un trois-ponts français de 104 canons vers 1690.jpg

1695-6 - Le Trident - G5345-1.jpg

French frigate Chaillé 1686.jpg

A Store ship and a pinasse - Bordeaux.jpg
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