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The current model ship building fad seems to be to encase everything in plastic.
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Even the parts that are already made out of plastic! I'm afraid scale ship modeling has gone the way of scale model planes, cars, and trains these days.
Wow, lots of information and thanks to all. I'll just use the thread that came with my OcCre kit and I purchased the Masters Touch all purpose acrylic sealer from Hobby lobby. Just want to use a readymade sealer and not get into the advanced chemical mixing or special ropes/lines that you advanced modelers use.
For an experiment, I coated the various threads that came with the kit with the Masters Touch sealer and also with CA. The CA treated lines did crystalize and snapped with a tug. The Acrylic sealer held with a good amount of tugging. I'll go with that to seal the fraying along the long riggings and not any CA.
What I did learn from you all, was to keep any sealant away from blocks, knots, dead eyes and belay pins in case I need to loosen and tighten/loose those lines during construction and to make those areas more adjustable.
Thanks to all me mateys!
For an experiment, I coated the various threads that came with the kit with the Masters Touch sealer and also with CA. The CA treated lines did crystalize and snapped with a tug. The Acrylic sealer held with a good amount of tugging. I'll go with that to seal the fraying along the long riggings and not any CA.
What I did learn from you all, was to keep any sealant away from blocks, knots, dead eyes and belay pins in case I need to loosen and tighten/loose those lines during construction and to make those areas more adjustable.
Thanks to all me mateys!
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As a solid it comes in pellets which should have an extremely long shelf life. It is quite simple to make your own at various concentrations. You can mix it with acetone or alcohol. A one pound bag would probably be good for a lifetime of use.
Rob
For securing knots, natural shellac is the best solution in my opinion. It dissolves in isopropyl alcohol, dries quickly, and is reversible. The photo shows a 100-gram pack of purified shellac from Aliexpress.
Forgive me if I am being over simple and possibly ignorant but, I have been quite happy to use PVA both neat and diluted on many, many models without any problem. If I make a mistake or need to remove something a good soaking in just plain water softens PVA quite enough to separate parts and residue is easy enough to scrape off if necessary when dry again. I have used diluted PVA with water a few times on rigging lines with no problems at all. I am just amazed at how a simple question at the beginning of this post has become so involved and 'technical'. Just my thoughts and not meant to cause any offence.
You have a point. I find it interesting to see what new ideas are out there that I had never thought about. Bob Cleek introduced me to the use of B-72 and I think it may be a new alternative for many areas of usage (I just need the time to try it more). It is nice to see there are usually more than one solution to a problem.
Rob
To keep ropes in their 'natural' shape, or secure knots, I use Lineco Neutral pH Adhesive, diluted with water.
2 or 3 thin layers will dry transparent, without a glossy surface. Let it dry in the shape you wanted:
Before:
After:
Use the ‘search option’ of the forum with ‘Lineco’ and you will find lots of positive posts with the use of this PVA.
Regards, Peter
2 or 3 thin layers will dry transparent, without a glossy surface. Let it dry in the shape you wanted:
Before:
After:
Use the ‘search option’ of the forum with ‘Lineco’ and you will find lots of positive posts with the use of this PVA.
Regards, Peter
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The line looks totally natural.
Read the link I posted which should answer most all of your questions: https://ia800108.us.archive.org/vie...0.1179.zip&file=10.1179%2Fsic.1986.31.1.7.pdf
Shelf life is infinite. If the acetone or alcohol solvent evaporates, I suppose you can grind up the material and dissolve it again in solvent. It's rated at 100+ archival quality. Like anything else, if bought in larger quantities, I suppose there's a savings in packaging, but I can't imagine a ship modeler having any reason to buy five gallons of mixed B-72!
The major advantage of B-72 to ship modelers is that it can be prepared in varying consistencies. I really don't think it's much different than shellac as a thin sealer or for fixing knots and thread ends, although its greater strength and flexibility over shellac when used as an adhesive is definitely an advantage. I have never heard of an adhesive for ship modeling which presents the advantages B-72 appears to hold over other alternatives.
I don't see any reason under the sun that anyone other than a very large industrial user with specific mixing parameters would have any interest in purchasing B-72 dissolved in solvent. The greatest advantage of B-72 for ship modeling is that the user can mix it in different consistencies for different purposes. If you buy it pre-mixed, you're defeating that purpose. A pound of B-72 pellets and a gallon of acetone and/or alcohol (ethanol) is all you need to have on hand to cover your needs for years and years to come.
I agree completely, although I prefer to use ethanol (plain alcohol) as the solvent.
The attraction of B-72 is that it can be mixed in varying consistencies and used not only as a sealer, but also as an adhesive. Shellac has the same qualities, but shellac when dried is hard and brittle and thus not as strong as B-72 when dried, which retains a bit of flexibility when dry and does not shatter like thick dried shellac will.
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Not really necessary if before you install any rigging thread you run it
through wax (about 6 pull throughs)…the best is cross country ski wax.
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My comment was a bit if a joke - the 5 gallon offering at $1,750.00 is ridiculous for a modeler
1. Use thinned raw bee's wax. Thin with dilute alcohol (dilute the commercial alcohol until it will no longer dissolve the wax then backup a bit). Consistency to be about like thick cream. Use an artists paint brush to apply. I apply it everything cotton. Use can also use this thin wax as a finish for wood: apply to the wood, then polish the excess off.
2. Use only "unprocessed" bee's wax. This is the condition of the wax straight out of the hive.
I buy mine from a local beekeeper. You can't buy this stuff at Walmrt. ALL of their product is processed in a dozen different way for a dozen different reasons. Look in the phonebook for a local source. Ebay advertises raw wax, but it is not. They offer the wax in many different processed sizes, weights and shapes, none of it really raw.
3. the reason for all the emphasis on raw is because the raw wax has antimicrobial properties that stop the growth of bacteria that rot the cotton rigging line that I make. WIth proper waxing the line should last for a hundred or more years. Basically, use every technique to increase the lifetime.
4. Do not use any type of glue. All glues will dry hard and brittle. then they break. guaranteed. Glue is a disaster for all rigging applications.
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No need to beg forgiveness. This forum is a "big tent" and there are a lot of different clowns in the ship modeling circus.
Lots of people are happy with one method or another. Sometimes a method is "six of one and a half dozen of another." Other times, it's flat out wrong for a lot of reasons, but the modeler who's doing it is happy doing it, proof that "ignorance is bliss." There are a lot of ship modelers who are content to assemble kits and happy with going no farther than the quality possible "out of the box." They model to satisfy only themselves and, as it is in the pursuit of all self-satisfaction, it matters not to anyone else which hand you use. At the other end of the modeler spectrum, are the modelers who are obsessive in their pursuit of perfection. They are always seeking the most historically accurate research data, the most archival materials, the most efficient way to work with the best tools. upon which they are forever seeking the best way to get the sharpest edge.
For the latter crowd, diving deep into the science and technology is part of what makes ship modeling challenging and enjoyable for them. It's like golf. There are golfers who are always trying to lower their handicap, even as they age and the likelihood of their succeeding goes from slim to none. They stop at nothing in their quest and a lot of them are forever looking for a better putter or livelier brand of balls. Given half a chance, they will happily go on and on about the relative merits of one brand of balls' aerodynamics compared to another. At the other end of the golfing spectrum are the "duffers" who play golf "to just have fun" and could care less about such obsessiveness. They find joy and fulfillment just walking the course in the fresh air communing with nature in the company of good friends. The only interest they have in their balls is getting their wife to kiss them for good luck.
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I was a complete golf duffer. I was in an after work league where them rule was to pick up the ball after 10 strokes. Most holes I picked up. It wasn’t fun!
When the company transferred me to Duluth, MN I could either play golf or join a crew racing a sailboat on Lake Superior. No contest.
Roger
When the company transferred me to Duluth, MN I could either play golf or join a crew racing a sailboat on Lake Superior. No contest.
Roger
Yes, bees' wax does indeed preserve cotton, in theory, at least. There are many stronger and more effective antibacterial and antifungal materials. Moreover, long term storage of bee's wax requires certain protocols to maintain its properties. It is generally stored like cheese, in blocks, with the expectation that a thin "bloom" will generally form on the surface of the block and create something similar to the rind on a wheel of cheese. The deterioration of antimicrobial qualities is promoted primarily by exposure to light, air, and dust. When applied to thread and fabric as a diluted film, the ration of wax surface area exposed to light and air is exponentially greater than when it is stored in block form. Thus, the natural breakdown of its antibacterial properties is much more rapid than seen in storage facilities designed to encourage the longevity of those properties.
Not all adhesives dry hard and brittle. Those that do will certainly cause thread to break more easily. Some adhesive materials are better than others in this respect. On balance, thin shellac will not cause deterioration of the material upon which it is applied. The breakage due to brittleness is a mechanical event caused by stiffened fibers being bent after impregnation with shellac. Keep in mind that bee's wax has a tendency to dry and become brittle with age and environmental exposure as well.
While bee's wax is considered to have rather good archival properties, I have not seen any peer-reviewed academic reports that address the archival effects of bee's wax on cotton thread. If you have any, please post the URL if possible. It's a line of investigation that is surely worth pursuing.
The use of Paraloid B-72 for the purpose of forming line into coils and catenaries and for use as an adhesive to be used on polyester thread and fabric, was discussed primarily in the context of its use by modelers for fastening things together. This is extremely promising primarily because, as an adhesive, B-72 remains somewhat flexible, there by rendering it a much stronger and less brittle and likely to break ship modeling adhesive. (See the posted technical papers on this subject above.) Moreover, microbial attack is not an issue with synthetic threads such as polyesters, like it is with cotton and other natural fibers.
The point is that the vagaries of the marketplace have dictated that synthetic threads and fabrics have replaced natural fibers in terms of what is commercially available to us. We are in a polyester world at this point, so preserving cotton or silk thread on a model really shouldn't be a concern in this day and age. There's absolutely no reason to be "sealing" all the rigging on ship models. There's no point to it, now. Never was, actually. I think it's just another internet social media "monkey see - monkey do" thing. It seems very few younger people these days read books and publications for information. They are all about posting questions online and expecting people to give them answers and advice which, in large measure, few follow.
I'm not making this stuff up. Neither am I some kind of expert. All I'm doing is repeating the scientific facts reported in the current curatorial professional literature. It's sufficiently important to archaeologists, museum restorationists, conservators, and the like, that there's scientists to study this stuff and publish their findings. See: https://ia800108.us.archive.org/view_archive.php?archive=/24/items/wikipedia-scholarly-sources-corpus/10.1179.zip&file=10.1179%2Fsic.1986.31.1.7.pdf
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Wow. story time. When I retired and started Elsie in 1/4" (see the thread) I thought it would be great to go totally scratch and set out to Alva Hardwoods from Fort Myers Beach, a day's event) to buy a plank of Basswood. After squaring the stock, inserting the zero clearance table-saw insert, calibrating the fence. getting out the planks and soaking them in ammonia; I had to think "What in the heck am I spending my time on? I was 76. What I wanted was a physical manifestation of my old boating and yachting experiences, not a bunch of wood working. Just think, if I had just bought strip wood or sourced hardware instead of brass shapes and solder, I might have finished the gunnels on Elsie before H. Ian came and took it all away. Oh well, now I can still express my skills continuing the rebuild of my ground floor. Go figure!
Hi, Bob. Will this Shellac work on polyester ropes and knots as good as on cotton ones? Will it seal polyester rope ends to prevent them to flare out?
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