Brilliant 64 Gun Ship 1690 3d Project

[WojtasS]

Hi

I would like to present you my latest project Le Brilliant 1690. Subject is challenging as original plans haven't survived till today. Fortunetly we have plans taken form
Tanneron's model in Musée de la Marine de Paris which is much better situation then Soleil Royal model. Another positive thing Brilliant model looks much less questionable and there's not a debate how much Tanneron changed in it in a way that can't fit historical period of ship. However, there are still some differences between the model and Berain's sketches which I intend to fill in.


I deliberately named this thread as a 3D project and not a model because I don't want to limit myself to just visualizations. Just like with Renommee, I want to create the whole ship, not just the decorations. This creates a much greater difficulty because there are no drawings of the weapons or equipment, let alone the planking.
After studying a large amount of materials and consultations, and especially thanks to @GuyM and @Hubac’s Historian who were patient in answering all my questions, I believe I will be able to fill in these gaps.


Moving on to the practical aspect of the project, I should point out something that affects the historical accuracy of the model being built. In the case of plans from the NMM or the Danish archives, ornamentation and decorations are often superimposed on the plans. In this case, for the reasons mentioned above, I am more inclined to capture the appearance of the vessel than to reconstruct it.


The easiest way to explain this is with an example.
These are the sketches of the Renommee’s ornaments,




and this is the actual structure of the ship.



I'm left with this


and this to merge

Without further ado, here’s what Brilliant looks like today. I hope this unique project will be interesting to others as well as to me. I’m also open to any feedback—if you spot any errors or inaccuracies, I’ll definitely try to fix them. To be honest, the hull still needs some work, but I needed a base from which to work on the stern​

 

[Peter Schaap]

Hi WojtasS,
Very impressive! Do you have a resin printer yourself?

 

[WojtasS]

Hi WojtasS,
Very impressive! Do you have a resin printer yourself?

Thanks. Yes and a laser cutter too.
Check out my other tread where I designed La Renommee. You'll find much more explanation how I build the hull

La Renommée 1744 Stern

Hello Some couple of month passed since I last posted something. I've been busy with finishing rest of decorations of La Renommée. Now I can finally show my results. Since this is a 3d-printable model it will take some time to test print and fit everything together. The reason it took so much...

shipsofscale.com

 

[GuyM]

Hi

I would like to present you my latest project Le Brilliant 1690. Subject is challenging as original plans haven't survived till today. Fortunetly we have plans taken form
Tanneron's model in Musée de la Marine de Paris which is much better situation then Soleil Royal model. Another positive thing Brilliant model looks much less questionable and there's not a debate how much Tanneron changed in it in a way that can't fit historical period of ship. However, there are still some differences between the model and Berain's sketches which I intend to fill in.


I deliberately named this thread as a 3D project and not a model because I don't want to limit myself to just visualizations. Just like with Renommee, I want to create the whole ship, not just the decorations. This creates a much greater difficulty because there are no drawings of the weapons or equipment, let alone the planking.
After studying a large amount of materials and consultations, and especially thanks to @GuyM and @Hubac’s Historian who were patient in answering all my questions, I believe I will be able to fill in these gaps.


Moving on to the practical aspect of the project, I should point out something that affects the historical accuracy of the model being built. In the case of plans from the NMM or the Danish archives, ornamentation and decorations are often superimposed on the plans. In this case, for the reasons mentioned above, I am more inclined to capture the appearance of the vessel than to reconstruct it.


The easiest way to explain this is with an example.
These are the sketches of the Renommee’s ornaments,


View attachment 601119

and this is the actual structure of the ship.

View attachment 601120

I'm left with this
View attachment 601131

and this to merge

View attachment 601132

Without further ado, here’s what Brilliant looks like today. I hope this unique project will be interesting to others as well as to me. I’m also open to any feedback—if you spot any errors or inaccuracies, I’ll definitely try to fix them. To be honest, the hull still needs some work, but I needed a base from which to work on the stern​

View attachment 601128
View attachment 601129
View attachment 601130

Hi; it looks really good I did some adjustments on one of your pics showing the top part of the decor; I put in yellow what I found from the original drawing; there's a ''doubling of the top contour of the stern board carving (in orange), I also thinned out the ''spinnes'' on the right side (in orange) and, on the drawing there are ''sunrays'' which seem like being of an altering different textures....I put rays in orange, but I'm not sure whether it is in fact a wave type of carving ( doubtful) or that texture alternation to separate the sunrays ( most likely)....

There is also an alternate drawing of the Brillant's decor with different balcony posts designs....Have a look at all of that

 

[WojtasS]

Hi; it looks really good I did some adjustments on one of your pics showing the top part of the decor; I put in yellow what I found from the original drawing; there's a ''doubling of the top contour of the stern board carving (in orange), I also thinned out the ''spinnes'' on the right side (in orange) and, on the drawing there are ''sunrays'' which seem like being of an altering different textures....I put rays in orange, but I'm not sure whether it is in fact a wave type of carving ( doubtful) or that texture alternation to separate the sunrays ( most likely)....

There is also an alternate drawing of the Brillant's decor with different balcony posts designs....Have a look at all of that

Thank you. I missed this contour, I'll add it for sure. I refrained from adding the rays because I think they'll only be visible in the visualization. They will be barely visible on the 3D print, I think, unless I make them much thicker than in the sketch, but I'll test it. Thanks for pointing out such details. I rejected the alternative version of the decorations due to their very low quality. In addition, the plans are based on the Tanneron's model, which makes the already complicated work much easier.

 

[GuyM]

Thank you. I missed this contour, I'll add it for sure. I refrained from adding the rays because I think they'll only be visible in the visualization. They will be barely visible on the 3D print, I think, unless I make them much thicker than in the sketch, but I'll test it. Thanks for pointing out such details. I rejected the alternative version of the decorations due to their very low quality. In addition, the plans are based on the Tannerono model, which makes the already complicated work much easier.

Yes, of course the ''sunrays'' can be added in other ways, whether through texturing after, or using thicker coats of paint and dabbing them with the handle end of a paint brush when the top surface of the paint has barely hardened while drying; as for the alternate drawing, I sent it to illustrate some design possibilities you could use if you think it would be of a better effect

 

[WojtasS]

I'll think how to get the sunrays somehow. The alternative is illustration is very tempting, but I think I'm going to stay consistient with one vison. Thanks for interest in subject I'm always happy to hear your insights

 

[serikoff]

I'll definitely be watching! Especially when it's in 3D and about the search for truth—I love that.

 

[Czesiek]

A big round of applause! I hope everything goes exactly as you plan

 

[WojtasS]

A big round of applause! I hope everything goes exactly as you plan

Thanks. I hope so too

 

[WojtasS]

I'll definitely be watching! Especially when it's in 3D and about the search for truth—I love that.

It requires a lot of research and it's totally worth it. Bringing something ancient to reality just from papers drawings is something exciting on its own. 3D is a solid foundation, but only part of the process. I plan to cover the 3D-printed hull in wood so that the resin is not visible. My friend also has a technique for painting resin so that it looks almost indistinguishable from wood, so all the decorations and figurines will match the wood.

 

[WojtasS]

Hello

Little progres on hull. I divided it on much larger are, certainly it will increase the printing time, but reduce the filling areas to minimum or zero.
I was a little worried about whether they'd fit in the printer, but I can easily fit up to 1/48. I also did carving that looks like a devil face for main sail tackle rope

 

[Czesiek]

Lucyferek niczego sobie

 

[WojtasS]

Lucyferek niczego sobie

Dzięki. Fajnie było zrobić coś innego niż typowe ornamenty

Thanks. It was fun to make something other than typical ornaments.

 

[GuyM]

Hello

Little progres on hull. I divided it on much larger are, certainly it will increase the printing time, but reduce the filling areas to minimum or zero.
I was a little worried about whether they'd fit in the printer, but I can easily fit up to 1/48. I also did carving that looks like a devil face for main sail tackle rope

View attachment 606243
View attachment 606244

Hi I have just realized the plans in the background aren't exactly like Tanneron's model; so which one are you basing your model on? From what I see here, it is closer to Tanneron's model......

 

[WojtasS]

Hi I have just realized the plans in the background aren't exactly like Tanneron's model; so which one are you basing your model on? From what I see here, it is closer to Tanneron's model......

I want to make it more similar to Tanneron's, but not exactly the same. I plan to add some details that Tanneron didn't include in his model eg. I added curtains at the stern carving. Could you describe some differences between this plan and Tanneron's model? I thought the plans of some of the French ships in *Souvenirs de La Marine* were taken from models at the Paris museum. The plan is not marked as The Brilliant, but this long description in other plate points directly on Tanneron's model. The names in Souvenirs de La Marine aren't particularly consistent: on one page, the Soleil Royal under construction is referred to as “108, 1st-rate,” while on another it is called Soleil Royal 120. In addition, the plans were displayed alongside other Tanneron's models such as L'Agréable and Capricieux

 

[GuyM]

I want to make it more similar to Tanneron's, but not exactly the same. I plan to add some details that Tanneron didn't include in his model eg. I added curtains at the stern carving. Could you describe some differences between this plan and Tanneron's model? I thought the plans of some of the French ships in *Souvenirs de La Marine* were taken from models at the Paris museum. The plan is not marked as The Brilliant, but this long description in other plate points directly on Tanneron's model. The names in Souvenirs de La Marine aren't particularly consistent: on one page, the Soleil Royal under construction is referred to as “108, 1st-rate,” while on another it is called Soleil Royal 120. In addition, the plans were displayed alongside other Tanneron's models such as L'Agréable and Capricieux
View attachment 606295
View attachment 606294

 

[Huc Bernard]

I want to make it more similar to Tanneron's, but not exactly the same. I plan to add some details that Tanneron didn't include in his model eg. I added curtains at the stern carving. Could you describe some differences between this plan and Tanneron's model? I thought the plans of some of the French ships in *Souvenirs de La Marine* were taken from models at the Paris museum. The plan is not marked as The Brilliant, but this long description in other plate points directly on Tanneron's model. The names in Souvenirs de La Marine aren't particularly consistent: on one page, the Soleil Royal under construction is referred to as “108, 1st-rate,” while on another it is called Soleil Royal 120. In addition, the plans were displayed alongside other Tanneron's models such as L'Agréable and Capricieux
View attachment 606295
View attachment 606294

The rear surfaces of the sterns were never flat when viewed from above.
They were always more or less curved, as shown in the following examples.

 

[GuyM]

If you look at your devil face and measure the distance between the portholes and where you make your panel vertically rise a bit, you find that it it closer to the Tanneron model than the plan in the background; the plan itself is not necessarily from the Brillant but rather a more generic plan of a 60 canon shp of the 1690 period. From the 1670's to the early 1700's there wasn't a lot of evolution in the hull shape except for very lightly better flowing slight rise toward the rear as the ''straightening'' of the hull construction was the new standard for the ship builders. So I would suggest you keep the Tanneron Brillant as your main reference for your buld.
Now, as for the naming of the different drawings, you need to keep in mind one important thing; we do not know who drew those, nore do we know when.... In that respect, two drawings carrying different file names with the same illustration may very well simply depend on who gave it the file name while keepeing track of the works' inventory and during which period.......There are many mistakes in the filing of drawings and misinterpretations of the actual artists who drew them. One case being the museum's model called the Louis XV, and that same ship on a drawing being called the Royal Louis.....The same is true with mistakes on the 1668 Royal Louis drawings being written Monarque on them. In the case of your example, the 1670 Soleil Royal was registered initially when Colbert and Duquesne decided to build the 4four royal ships as a 120 canon ship, which it never became. The labeling however remained throughout time, and it's only when you find all the information about the evolution of the initial constructions and set up that you realize what they really were. The Tanneron ship is a very beautiful exercise in 1670 Soleil Royal stern ship decor, but the hull shape, and the bow's decor, aswell as the top gunport row are not from the ship; The front and the top gunport rows represent a style more related to the beginnig of the 1680's and beyond; the same is true for the brillant as far as the top gunport row; now, the Brillant's career was so long (25 years) that it must have ha some refit during its time; it is quite possible that those top ports were modified with the new style as with all the ships of that 1680's period; the same is true with the decor. It could be that the initial decor ( with the curtains) was in face the right decor, but by the time of the first refit, it was modified because of the rott in the wood carving, or some other reason; Tanneron's Brillant could also be any of the three first ships which carried that name in that period....Initially from 1671 to 1678; the name was tranfered to another ship from 1678 to 1687; and to a new build in 1688.....up to 1698.....All those ships were very similar in their appearance and construction....

 

[GuyM]

The rear surfaces of the sterns were never flat when viewed from above.
They were always more or less curved, as shown in the following examples.View attachment 606331View attachment 606332