Laser Cutters

[tball4217]

Seen them mentioned lately, and have questions

What software are they using to get drawings inputted into them for cutting? I have a few ideas of models for the future, of actual ships from an actual company that makes full size cad files for cnc cutter machines to make the hull components for plywood sheet based day sailers..

 

[Jimsky]

Seen them mentioned lately, and have questions

What software are they using to get drawings inputted into them for cutting? I have a few ideas of models for the future, of actual ships from an actual company that makes full size cad files for cnc cutter machines to make the hull components for plywood sheet based day sailers..

Laser cutting tools use a variety of software to input drawings for cutting. This software generally falls into two categories:

1. CAD (Computer-Aided Design) Software: This software is used to create the initial designs and drawings. It allows for precise geometric creation and manipulation. Common CAD software used for laser cutting includes:

• AutoCAD: A widely used professional CAD software known for its precision and extensive features. It can export files in DXF format, a common standard for laser cutting.
• SolidWorks: Popular in engineering, it offers robust 2D and 3D design capabilities and can export DXF files. It also has integrated CAM features.
• Fusion 360: A cloud-based CAD/CAM software that is becoming increasingly popular due to its capabilities and more accessible pricing. It can also export DXF files and manage toolpaths.
• DraftSight: A free or low-cost 2D CAD software that serves as a good alternative to AutoCAD for creating and editing DXF files.
• Inkscape: A free and open-source vector graphics editor. While primarily a graphics tool, it can create and export designs in SVG format, which is compatible with many laser cutters.
• Adobe Illustrator: A professional vector graphics software widely used for creating intricate designs and artwork. It can export in AI and SVG formats, both suitable for laser cutting.
• CorelDRAW: Another professional vector graphics software that can be used to create designs for laser cutting and supports formats like CDR, AI, DXF, and SVG.

2. Laser Control Software: This software takes the designs created in CAD software and prepares them for the laser cutter. It controls the laser's parameters, such as power, speed, and cutting order. Some common laser control software includes:

• LightBurn: A popular, user-friendly software compatible with a wide range of laser controllers (Ruida, Trocen, TopWisdom, and GCode-based). It allows for importing various vector and raster formats (AI, SVG, DXF, PDF, as well as image formats like PNG and JPG), editing designs, setting cutting parameters, and directly controlling the laser.
• RDWorks:Software commonly bundled with Chinese laser cutters that use Ruida controllers. It provides tools for design, setting parameters, and controlling the laser. It primarily works with its own RLD format but also imports DXF, AI, and PLT vector formats, as well as raster formats.
• LaserGRBL: A free and open-source software specifically designed for GRBL-based laser engravers and cutters. It focuses on image engraving and basic vector editing and accepts G-code.
• Trotec JobControl: Proprietary software for Trotec laser machines, offering a seamless workflow from design to cutting, with features like a PDF and DXF interface.
• Epilog Laser Dashboard: Proprietary software for Epilog laser systems, providing control over laser parameters and job management.
• Universal Laser Systems Control Center: Proprietary software for Universal Laser Systems machines, offering design import and laser control features.
  

File Formats:
The most common file formats used to transfer designs from CAD software to laser cutting software are vector-based formats, as they define shapes using mathematical equations, ensuring scalability without loss of quality. These include.

• DXF (Drawing Exchange Format): A widely supported format, especially in CAD and engineering applications.
• SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics): An XML-based vector format popular for web graphics and increasingly used in laser cutting.
• AI (Adobe Illustrator): The native vector format for Adobe Illustrator.
• CDR (CorelDRAW): The native vector format for CorelDRAW.
• EPS (Encapsulated PostScript): A versatile format that can contain both vector and raster elements.
• PDF (Portable Document Format): Can contain vector graphics and is widely used, though it's essential to ensure the PDF contains actual vector data for cutting.

Raster image formats like JPG, PNG, and GIF are typically used for laser engraving rather than cutting, as they are pixel-based and can lose quality when scaled. Laser control software often has tools to convert these images into a format suitable for engraving (e.g., halftoning or dithering). The specific software and file formats used will depend on the type of laser cutter, the controller it uses, and the designer's preference and workflow. Many laser control software packages offer basic design tools as well, allowing for simple shapes and text to be created directly within the software, eliminating the need for separate CAD software for some projects.

https://research.ppld.org/laser/DesignSoftware

 

[tball4217]

I fisrt started using autocad with release 16 back in 95 or 96. or was it 14.. been long frigging time.

 

[tossedman]

I've used Adobe Illustrator for years, mostly because I get it free through work. Works very well. Trotec Job control and LightBurn will both import native illustrator files with no problems.

 

[Sterling59]

Has anybody got experience with any "entry level" laser cutters available that are suitable for basic cutting practice? I'd like to see what's possible without sinking a pile of money in at the beginning...
Thanks!

 

[rtwpsom2]

I fisrt started using autocad with release 16 back in 95 or 96. or was it 14.. been long frigging time.

I still prefer key commands to the stupid UI they introduced back in 2008.

 

[plotter]

thanks for all your good comments and owerview of the software and file formats

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

Yawl (sp) do realize that you can do the same functions at an infinitely lower cost using GIMP or PhotoShop in the Cloud and a good quality hand coping saw?
A Knew saw if you really want to splurge. With the hand saw you will have time to massage the wood. Make friends with it. No char either and the stock can be thicker. Real wood can be used too.

 

[Tommyhawk]

Hi every one. Just want to get some information on what the best cad that will help me learn how to use my Laser cutting to help me work on Alfred. It's a WeCreat Vision Pro 45W Laser engraving & Cutting Machine. Never own one and hope the good folks her will put me on the right track. Looks like I came to the right place and thank you.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

i took a look at the software it will not load any CAD files



it will import JPG but there is very little you can do with the file



it looks like you need light burn to run the laser



i never used light burn so i do not know if you can impost cad files like DXF or DWG or if you can draw with light burn

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

i actually do not do any laser cutting however i create the cutting files and have laser cutting experts actually do the cutting

i start buy importing a high resolution JPG image of the drawing into Auto cad and trace it



here is the Alfred stern in CAD what is nice i can separate all the pieces and parts



here you can see a double line in the window below. The black line is the actual shape of the window the red line is the laser path which is offset. You would need to know what the curf of the beam is to create the offset



the reason for an offset is the laser will char when cutting if you did not set an offset by the time your remove the char the fine mullion strips will be to thin or gone all together

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

by setting the laser power you can cut and etch

i do not know what light burn software can or cannot do or if the files have to be created in a drawing or CAD software first then brought into Light Burn to be converted to a cutting file

 

[Rob444]

I actually used a 10W entry level laser cutter that my library has. It is called the Creality falcon. You can use their design program on the web for free and download the final design as well as keep it in your free account. The design program is actually pretty easy to use and they have tutorials.

I made a number of plaques with it. I suggest you call your local library. Mine also has a Bambu 3D printer that you can use by the hour. If you buy your own I recommend a closed one as it generates a lot of smoke that has to be vented outdoors.

There are probably thousands of you tube videos about the laser cutters.

https://www.crealityfalcon.com/

 

[Bob Cleek]

Yawl (sp) do realize that you can do the same functions at an infinitely lower cost using GIMP or PhotoShop in the Cloud and a good quality hand coping saw?
A Knew saw if you really want to splurge. With the hand saw you will have time to massage the wood. Make friends with it. No char either and the stock can be thicker. Real wood can be used too.

... Or a scroll saw for those who wish to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome. There is perhaps no better buy for ship modelers on the used stationary power tool market than a decent scroll saw. For a number of reasons, buying one is attractive to novices in a number of different hobbies who seem prone to losing interest after a relatively short while and thereafter post them at "give away" prices on internet neighborhood "for sale" sites and many models aren't particularly expensive even when bought brand new.

Perhaps a proponent of laser cutting for scale ship modeling can explain the specific advantages laser cutting offers to scale model ship modelers. I've never understood its attraction for some, although I don't profess to be highly knowledgeable about it. It's my understanding that CNC controlled laser cutting has certain advantages in a production environment where a large number of identical parts might require cutting out repetitively, but even that advantage is offset by the disadvantages of removing char and the inherent detail tolerance limitations resulting from the width of the burned laser cut. And all of this goes without saying anything about the applicable learning curve and large expense of the required software and laser cutting hardware, smoke ventilation equipment, and so on. I suppose a kit manufacturer can tout laser cutting technology to gain some marketing edge by ascribing an imaginary "advantage" to their product, but try as I might, I just don't see the advantage of laser wood cutting in the context of one-off scale ship modeling. If kit manufacturers want offer a product that permits their customers to avoid the "work" of cutting out parts, injection molded polystyrene kits are the far better answer. It would seem that laser burning wooden ship model parts isn't so much a "giant leap for mankind," as it is a return the very technology the cavemen used to hollow out the first dugout canoes.

This is a serious question: What's the point of laser-burning parts cutting for scale ship models?

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

This is a serious question: What's the point of laser-burning parts cutting for scale ship models?

As you know i had difficulty in making just 2 windows for the Sir Edward Hawke. I would imagine building all the windows for a ship like the Alfred that would be quite a task. I can draw them out in CAD and get the correct slant to each window as you can see in the drawing i posted but building them is a whole other issue. So if you can at least draw the windows you can very accurately laser cut them which i see as an advantage.
As for me i would 3d print windows before i would laser cut them the char is a problem with such small parts. Repeated parts like 100 gun carriages is something suited for laser cutting.

i do 3D printing and laser cutting and i can say it takes a lot of time just to learn the software as it does to just do it by hand. The advantage is the extreme accuracy of CAD 1.0000 way more accurate than the hand of man and far more than you would need.

both a scroll saw and a laser cutter are just power tools it takes a degree of knowledge and skill for both of them

the program to use is Light Burn it is not free and you have to learn how to use it

 

[Bob Cleek]

Repeated parts like 100 gun carriages is something suited for laser cutting.

I can see that, but you still have the issue of char and, with small parts, the problem of the width of the laser char "kerf." Alternately, there are many ways to mass-produce parts. taking gun carriages, for example, the shape of the sides of carriages can be cut on a billet of suitable length and then the individual sides simply parted off, one by one, from the billet. Similarly, wooden gun carriage wheels can easily be parted off from a dowel with an axle hole drilled in the end of the dowel and the wheels parted off the drilled dowel. This "sliced bread" technique has the advantage of producing absolutely uniform parts with crisp edges which is near impossible to accomplish when one has to sand char off the edges one by one.

Is it really possible to laser-burn parts like multi-paned windows with tiny mullions and muntins and remove the char and end up with a satisfactory result? I must stress that I have very little experience with laser-cutting, so I may be unaware of just how sharp an edge can be achieved by burning it, but my present impression is that once they are drawn, as is in most instances is necessary, a large "board" drawing can always be reduced to a much smaller size on a copy machine to make patterns that can be attached to thin sheet stock and the apertures very cleanly cut out with a straightedge and a sharp scalpel or knife more neatly and expeditiously than by laser-cutting and char sanding.

I agree that for the production of highly detailed small parts 3D printing seems the better technique. Of course, that opens up a whole other can of worms, on the one hand the philosophical - "Is 3D printing really the modeler's own handiwork?" and on the other hand, the practical - 3D filament materials span a wide spectrum of archival quality, in many instances unsuitable for serious fine art scale modeling. I'm not sure if anybody's actually done it yet, but, in theory, at least, as I understand 3D technology, it's entirely possible for all the data necessary to print out all of the parts of a "3D ship model kit" on to a thumb drive also containing all the assembly instructions and with programming to permit the user to build the model to any scale they desire that is within the capacity of their 3D printer! A quick review of the hobby level 3D printer market suggests that such a "thumb drive kit" including a "home hobby" level 3D printer might even be marketed at a price point competitive with most of the more complex conventional "sticks and string" ship model kits! I'll predict right now that as 3D printing technology becomes more accessible to the hobbyist community, we will be seeing models built from such "digital kits" with significantly less of an investment in expertise and labor by their builders than ever before.

Interestingly, both the NAVIGA international ship modeling competition class definitions and the North American (Mystic Seaport/Mariners' Museum/NRG) Ship Model Classification Guidelines (See: https://www.shipmodel.com/2018SITE/...ship-model-classification-guidelines-1980.pdf) provide for separate judging classes for "scratch" and "kit" models, while the definition of a "high-quality scale ship model" as explained by Rob Napier in his book, Caring for Ship Models, does not.

However, regardless of the degree of effort and skill any nominal modeler might invest in a model they claim to have built themselves, the North American accepted definition of a "high-quality scale ship model" appears to continue to be valid, as Napier and others have pointed out:

"A high-quality scale ship model provides a compelling impression of an actual vessel within the constraints of historical accuracy."

"It is important to recognize that neither arm of our definition considers how a model was made. There is no assessment of whether entire models or components of them are built from scratch, built from kits, or built by teams of modelers. The main thing is the appearance of the finished model. The ends justify the means."

Rob Napier, Caring for Ship Models - A Narrative of Thought and Application, (2022) Seawatch Books.

I strongly agree that every ship model, regardless of how it is built, should be judged "standing alone" on its own merits. Where we seem to go astray, or at least where some, ignorant of the essential principle of artistic criticism, get their feelings hurt, is when we fail to judge separately the artist and his work. In such instance, a valid criticism of a model is erroneously perceived as insensitive at best, and a vicious attack at worst, upon the personality of the evaluated model's builder. I do think we must recognize that it is entirely possible that at sometime in the not too distant future, it will be possible, theoretically, at least, to encounter an entirely 3D printed, or laser-cut, ship model which "provides a compelling impression of an actual vessel within the constraints of historical accuracy." When that day comes, credit should be given to the model, rather than its modeler, as now should be the case with every model.

To that end, I would propose a "critic's circle" in every online ship modeling forum. Such a "critic's circle" would permit the anonymous presentation of completed ship models, or parts thereof, for review and constructive peer criticism, in the same fashion as the student's work in most all academic art classes is critiqued, but in a manner similar to a "blind tasting" wine quality competition. Nobody should know who built the model or how it was built. The point of the exercise is to evaluate the model, separate and apart from the modeler or how it was built, thereby yielding a useful critique of the model alone against the standard for a "high-quality scale ship model:" to what extent it "provides a compelling impression of an actual vessel within the constraints of historical accuracy."

 

[RolandR]

I use a 12 year old Corel Draw software for the drawings. I had 2 CO2 Lasers but switched to LED since it is much cheaper and and easier to work with. No more aligning the laserbeam, just plug and play with the right software. I use LightBurn.

 

[RolandR]

by setting the laser power you can cut and etch

i do not know what light burn software can or cannot do or if the files have to be created in a drawing or CAD software first then brought into Light Burn to be converted to a cutting file

View attachment 606669View attachment 606670View attachment 606671View attachment 606672

Lightburn is very easy to use and works with almost all the laser machine. I switched from XTool to Creality Falcon and only had to adjust the speed and power settings but did not have to learn a new system. It also lets you save your own settings library, which is very nice when you work with multiple materials.

 

[tossedman]

A good CO2 laser and the correct settings can minimize char and give great results. These were cut on an 80W Trotec CO2 laser. It's a pretty expensive production machine that uses proprietary software. The first image shows window frames and mullions for an N scale train shed were cut from 1/16" basswood and polybak respectively with very little char on the wood and almost none on the polybak. Polybak is resin impregnated paper that cuts like butter on the laser. It takes great detail and is strong for its thickness.

It takes a lot of work to dial in the proper settings but with care you can minimize the char. I don't cut much wood thicker than 1/8" very often but as you can see by the rafters in the second image there is very little char. All parts of this train shed were laser cut, windows, framing, rafters, siding etc.

Correcting for the kerf of the laser allows for tight fitting pieces. I really enjoy designing for the laser and fine tuning the results. I also laser cut cannon carriages and a jig to glue them together as shown in the third image.

The fourth image shows the deck for the topsail schooner Julia that I laser cut and laser engraved. For the size of it I don't know how I'd do it manually.

Cheers,

Todd

 

[Roger Pellett]

The following expresses my personal preferences on the subject of Laser Cutting and by association CAD, CNC, and 3-D printing as applied to model shipbuilding. It is not intended to imply how readers of my post should build their models or what technology they should or should not use.

Ship model building is supposed to be creative, enjoyable, and to produce something of artistic merit. All of the technologies mentioned above involve computers that I don’t enjoy using. I also dislike computer programs because I don’t like having to follow some programmer’s instructions. I also don’t find work done on a computer to be creative.

Will models built using computer technology be classed in the future the same as those built by hand? It’s too soon to tell but I suspect not.

My personal beliefs. I respect yours.

Roger