Laser Cutters

[Bob Cleek]

A good CO2 laser and the correct settings can minimize char and give great results. These were cut on an 80W Trotec CO2 laser.

Very impressive!

 

[Bob Cleek]

The following expresses my personal preferences on the subject of Laser Cutting and by association CAD, CNC, and 3-D printing as applied to model shipbuilding. It is not intended to imply how readers of my post should build their models or what technology they should or should not use.

Ship model building is supposed to be creative, enjoyable, and to produce something of artistic merit. All of the technologies mentioned above involve computers that I don’t enjoy using. I also dislike computer programs because I don’t like having to follow some programmer’s instructions. I also don’t find work done on a computer to be creative.

Will models built using computer technology be classed in the future the same as those built by hand? It’s too soon to tell but I suspect not.

My personal beliefs. I respect yours.

Roger

I share the same philosophy. I think that there is a common phenomenon that runs through all digital design which, in technical terms, may be an advantage, but in artistic terms is a shortcoming. When a CAD drawing is compared with an "old school" manual engineering drawing, there is a certain sterility to the CAD drawing which, while indisputably the more precisely accurate, lacks a somewhat undefinable quality of "subtle imperfection" that simply makes the manual drawing, if well-executed, the more pleasing to the eye. This phenomenon is well-recognized in the case of signage where the one-off hand lettering of a sign painter with a "good fist" is always preferred by the knowledgeable eye over computer-generated lettering fonts cut from adhesive-backed vinyl material. To my eye, the same "lack of handmade charm" is characteristic of laser-cut, photoetched, and CNC-machined parts on today's professionally produced scale ship models. It is not uncommon that a model might exhibit superior accuracy and craftsmanship while the "sterility" of its CAD and CNC origins negates its providing the "compelling impression of an actual vessel" required of a high-quality scale ship model.

While CAD drafting is unquestionably faster and less labor-intensive, and thereby more economical in terms of labor costs, its higher accuracy is not the advantage the uninitiated may believe it to be because trained users of such drawings know that dimensions are never taken from the lines drawings, but rather only from the measurement notations on the drawings or specification text. Where "art" is not the objective, a digitally drafted drawing is definitely as huge an improvement over manual drafting as digital mathematics is over a slide rule. However, where the desired result is a work of fine art, the manual analog creation of a scale representation trumps the digitally generated result every time.

 

[DAWarden-(Jaager)]

I think that acceptance or total rejection of laser, 3D printing, CNC is an excellent sieve.
It serves to define two very different reasons, objectives, and motives. It is an either/or situation.
Comparisons and competition should be restricted to within the two categories. There is so little in common between the two that competition between them is meaningless.

I would add CA, polyurethane, MDF if I were writing the rules. I am not.

 

[Rob444]

A good CO2 laser and the correct settings can minimize char and give great results. These were cut on an 80W Trotec CO2 laser. It's a pretty expensive production machine that uses proprietary software. The first image shows window frames and mullions for an N scale train shed were cut from 1/16" basswood and polybak respectively with very little char on the wood and almost none on the polybak. Polybak is resin impregnated paper that cuts like butter on the laser. It takes great detail and is strong for its thickness.

It takes a lot of work to dial in the proper settings but with care you can minimize the char. I don't cut much wood thicker than 1/8" very often but as you can see by the rafters in the second image there is very little char. All parts of this train shed were laser cut, windows, framing, rafters, siding etc.

Correcting for the kerf of the laser allows for tight fitting pieces. I really enjoy designing for the laser and fine tuning the results. I also laser cut cannon carriages and a jig to glue them together as shown in the third image.

The fourth image shows the deck for the topsail schooner Julia that I laser cut and laser engraved. For the size of it I don't know how I'd do it manually.

Cheers,

Todd

View attachment 606812


View attachment 606814

View attachment 606815

View attachment 606816

Really wonderful work! That decking on the schooner is amazing!

Rob

 

[Rob444]

I would add CA, polyurethane, MDF if I were writing the rules. I am not.

Luckily (at least for me) I believe most of us are not doing this for any competition or show where there may be rules.

I think we just like working with our hands. For me the best part of this "enterprise" is the build itself. I have tried a bit to learn CAD, but the learning curve (for me) is pretty steep. I dabbled in the software to create the plaques for my ship.

Going one step beyond, I see that there are now AI programs that will take ship plans and transfer them to instructions to produce laser cut bulkheads, There are also AI programs that allow you to take one or 2 pictures of a three dimensional object and produce instructions for 3D printing of that object. Even here, in a small way, this site has a spell check to correct my poor spelling ability.

Rob

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

nice work Todd i tried to laser cut windows with no success my problem was the lasers i use are industrial size at 800 and 1,200 watts. trying to dial it down to fine cutting just did not work. The laser does not cut square it cuts as an upside down V the beam spreads out. This made the frames and mullions V shaped and trying to clean off the char they just crumbled. Another problem was the wood grain the mullions had a cross grain and extremely delicate. The softer the material the less char but more delicate, harder the material like Boxwood the stronger the piece but more char.
Now a low power laser engraver may do the job i do not know because i do not run a laser just program them.

i use AutoCad because the lasers are open end that is to say it will use any vector file so they will cut from a AutoCad DWG file.

Some lasers use proprietary software so you have to use their software and some of it is just junk. That is why it is free with the machine.
Now Light Burn does say it will work with MOST lasers. My personal issue with software these days is they have you at their command. Years ago i bought AutoCad 2004 it came on a CD i bought and paid for it i have the CD i own it. Well! today programs like Light Burn you pay and pay and keep paying for it every year you never own it.

An open end machine will allow you to use different drawing programs and will recognize the files but you have to be pretty savvy as a CAD user or know your drawing programs. Some programs will not import or export the file you need that the laser will recognize. Machines run on Gcode so any drawing has to be converted.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

i believe the topic is how to use a laser cutter and not why. BUT the why is interesting because when you plan a project the big think is how can i achieve the results i have in my head. If you are presented with a fine art model or see one in a gallery who would ask how the model was built it is not the how it is the end results that counts.

archival quality of the material is meaningless to me because your talking to someone who spent many hours building plastic ship kits then take them out to the pond on the farm and shoot at them with a BB gun. Who actually cares? less than 1% are building for museums or private collections.

"subtle imperfection" now that i totally agree with

i have seen model builder obsessed with perfect sharp edges, polished clean models that tip them over to looking machine made or unrealistic looking models. If anyone were to look at the Sir Edward Hawke model being built in the school there is no mistake it is hand built imperfections and all.

Embracing Imperfections in Art
Embracing imperfections in art is about trusting the process, valuing authenticity, and seeing flaws as opportunities for growth and connection. It’s a shift from striving for flawless results to celebrating the human, unpolished moments that make art relatable and memorable.
Why Imperfections Matter
Art is often judged by precision, but imperfections—whether intentional or accidental—can add character, emotion, and uniqueness. They reflect the artist’s hand, vulnerability, and spontaneity, making the work feel alive Medium+1. Historically, artists like Bob Ross have framed mistakes as “happy little accidents” that enrich the piece

 

[Roger Pellett]

Re; Bob Cleek’s post #22 above. As an example of the “hand” involved in manual drafting, Howard Chapelle’s drawings are instantly recognizable even when published somewhere other than one of his books.

Roger

 

[tossedman]

nice work Todd i tried to laser cut windows with no success my problem was the lasers i use are industrial size at 800 and 1,200 watts. trying to dial it down to fine cutting just did not work. The laser does not cut square it cuts as an upside down V the beam spreads out. This made the frames and mullions V shaped and trying to clean off the char they just crumbled. Another problem was the wood grain the mullions had a cross grain and extremely delicate. The softer the material the less char but more delicate, harder the material like Boxwood the stronger the piece but more char.
Now a low power laser engraver may do the job i do not know because i do not run a laser just program them.

i use AutoCad because the lasers are open end that is to say it will use any vector file so they will cut from a AutoCad DWG file.

Thanks Dave. Those windows are basswood. Pretty soft. Haven't tried boxwood because until just recently I've not had any. This laser uses a 2" lens, so while we do get the V shape to cuts it's not as pronounced as with a longer lens. A shorter 1.5" lens might reduce that even more. Here's the machine I have access to at work. Trotec Speedy 300 80W CO2 laser. Nice machine for this kind of work. 17" X 29" bed so cannot cut big sheets but it's fine for my needs.

I use Adobe Illustrator for design as I know it well and Trotec's software allows me to import Illustrator files directly. AI files are vector files as well.



Here's a video of cutting cannon carriages out of 1/8" basswood.


View attachment laser_carriages.mp4

Cheers,

Todd

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

two of the drawing programs are Corel Draw and Adobe Illustrator but as you said Trotec's software allows me to import Illustrator files directly.

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

It's a WeCreat Vision Pro 45W Laser engraving & Cutting Machine
does come with software and free to download which i did to try it out WeCreate Makeit is totally worthless to custom draw and create files. Nor can you import anything except a JPEG

so in this case you need one of the above drawing programs but if WeCreate Makeit will not import their files then well your screwed you need something like light Burn that you can draw in and it will talk to the laser

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

Re; Bob Cleek’s post #22 above. As an example of the “hand” involved in manual drafting, Howard Chapelle’s drawings are instantly recognizable even when published somewhere other than one of his books.

Roger

you know there is truth to that in the early days of graphic design we had to draw layouts for web presses and die cutting. i can pick up a layout and instantly know who did the drawings. Later i became aware of the artists mark who did it.
i can see if a model was designed by "standard" software and machine made the artists mark is lost, it becomes genetic

 

[Roger Pellett]

Unfortunately, my drafting “hand” is related to “Pigpen” of the Peanuts comic strip. Fortunately there have been three advances since I squeeked by freshman drafting courses (now CAD) in engineering school: Mylar drafting film, disposable drafting pens, and electric erasers. I make pencil drawings and trace in ink, both on Mylar. By its nature, a lines drawing requires a lot of erasing and redrawing. Mylar stands up to erasures. When the engineering department where I worked transitioned to CAD they threw out a large roll of Mylar that I retrieved.

Roge

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

i have a small laser cutter i never set up because i figured how many times would i actually use it and the yearly cost for the software is not worth it the machine would sit idle most of the time. unless i turn it into a sideline craft hobby and sell laser cut items at craft shows.
Laser art is indeed worthy of calling it art i an appropriate the creative insight and the hundreds of hours spent in drawing

here are examples of "art" created with a laser like Hahn's etching once the master is destroyed or the cutting file deleted the piece is one of a kind never to be copied. The laser cutter was just a machine to create the artists work.

so Gary the machine is just a dumb machine it is you who has to tell it what to do and that takes a lot of time and effort,