Planking math

[JacquesCousteau]

Three related thoughts:

1) Is the problem here actually about kit vs scratch, or is it about some posts being really condescending? I mean, maybe it's just me, but maybe the "special olympics" comments and the like are off-putting? There's certainly space for critique, but there are ways to be critical without being rude.

2) The way some write about the supposed "kit vs scratch divide" makes no sense to me. I have no idea where these ideas come from. To quote a recent post, "Somebody builds an indisputably uninteresting kit model and everybody is supposed to fawn all over them with complements." What are you talking about? Seriously, it's like making something up to get mad at. At most, I suppose that many builds get a number of friendly but generic "nice work!" comments, but I'm baffled by the idea that that's devaluing the art of modeling or something. If the only comments people posted on all but the most impressive builds were "meh, your work is mediocre, try harder," I think that very few people would want to post at all. (And if your perspective is that only "high quality" builds matter: some portion of those builders will eventually become very skilled scratch-builders). There's also a lot of comments suggesting some sort of conspiracy to devalue scratch building, which I haven't seen the slightest evidence for.

3) I think the best way to shape the direction of ship modeling is by posting and supporting the types of builds you want to see more of, rather than writing about how the unwashed masses are doing it wrong. I suppose one can try to brand oneself a "prickly truth-teller," but at the end of the day, I'd rather be branded "makes interesting builds" or "friendly and helpful."

 

[Bob Cleek]

One man's "condescension" is another man's cure for an overinflated ego. I'll admit that the Special Olympics simile was maybe a bit excessive. After all, unlike ship modeling as some would have it, in the Special Olympics, while "everybody gets a prize," they still do give awards to the winners, too.

If the only comments people posted on all but the most impressive builds were "meh, your work is mediocre, try harder," I think that very few people would want to post at all.

Exactly. And this is a bad thing how?

I think the best way to shape the direction of ship modeling is by posting and supporting the types of builds you want to see more of

Precisely my point. I think we need to raise the level of discourse and lower the number of redundant posts from which little can be learned.

 

[JacquesCousteau]

One man's "condescension" is another man's cure for an overinflated ego.

I have yet to see any evidence of overinflated egos. I see a lot of posts with people being encouraging of others with shared interests.

Exactly. And this is a bad thing how?

As I wrote, "if your perspective is that only "high quality" builds matter: some portion of those builders will eventually become very skilled scratch-builders." I think a forum in which everyone posted the way you suggest would very quickly just become you writing to yourself.

Again, I have yet to see how anyone is forcing you to celebrate work you don't like. You're apparently getting bent out of shape over other people showing basic courtesy to others?

Precisely my point

And your builds are... where? I seem to recall you once posting a model catboat. It looked nice, why not share more like that? It would certainly give you something to do beyond complaining about how other people are too nice these days.

 

[Bob Cleek]

Again, I have yet to see how anyone is forcing you to celebrate work you don't like. You're apparently getting bent out of shape over other people showing basic courtesy to others?

You're taking me much too seriously. I hardly ever "bent out of shape" about anything. I'm not the type that gets "bent." All I'm saying is that I'd like to see higher quality work emphasized and less mediocre work celebrated because I think we learn best by studying the best examples. Beyond that, hey. I just don't even bother looking at all the kit builds, not because there's anything particularly wrong with them, but rather just because I don't have any interest in them. When I see something that does interest me, I usually thank the poster for sharing it.

And your builds are... where?

Here, there, and everywhere. I don't post pictures of them because I have no reason to do so at the moment and there's nothing special about them from which anybody could learn anything that hasn't already been written about and illustrated repeatedly in books and in other people's posts. There really isn't much new under the sun in ship modeling. It's been around a long time and is a pretty mature art form. I used to try to convince people to do things the right way. I used to crusade against plank-on-bulkhead framing, strip planking, out-of-scale copper hull plates and "bowling pin" belaying pins, but in a world today where the prevailing wisdom is that everybody's entitled to create their own truth, I've given up trying. As Dirty Harry said, "A man's got to know his limitations." As is the case with most of the guys in this world who've been ship modeling for the better part of half a century and are still sucking air, my modeling head is in an entirely different place than kit models.

 

[zoly99sask]

Let's say the longest rib is 102mm and each plank is 5mm that would give me 20 planks with 2mm left over, do i do the rest of the math with that 20 plank number and put the 2mm strip next to the keel or do I say 21mm and have to slightly adjust the height of all the planks

This is the original topic,can we stay on it?

 

[Frank48]

Caffè

 

[Charlie1805]

Mir muss der Modellbau einfach nur Freude bereiten. Spaß machen. Mich mit Kollegen austauschen und mich entsprechend meiner handwerklichen Fähigkeiten weiterbringen. Hmm…..vielleicht gibt es in Zukunft den „ Lehrberuf „ Schiffsmodellbau ? Entschuldigung dafür, dass ich in de
Iesem Bericht meine unwichtige, unprofessionelle Meinung mitteilen. Mein Beitrag darf gerne gelöscht werden.

Danke für das Feedback,
Nachdem ich diesen Bericht hier mehrfach gelesen habe, bin ich mir sicher , meiner Linie Treu zu bleiben und keinen Baubericht zu veröffentlichen. Trotz meiner über 50 jährigen „Lehre im historischen Schiffsmodellbau „ Mich hat die Diskussion etwas erschrocken. Eigentliche Thema war das Thema der Plankenmathematik. Schön,daß es Modellbauer wie Serkoff gibt, die auch aus einem Bausatz in der Lage sind, ein herrliches Modell herzustellen und dann noch jeden Schritt verständlich erklären können. Was für ein „Meister „ seines Faches. Danke dafür

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

This is the original topic,can we stay on it?

the original topic and question has been answered within first page or so. There is nothing more to add unless we want to say it over and over again. So just end the topic with you got your answer. OR let it drift away into another discussion which is actually quite interesting.

the quick reference answers

1 you cannot plank a hull from kit supplied material which is all the same width and make work out the right way

2 trying to figure out how to do it with math will not work unless you taper the planks to almost a point

3 planks are shaped to fit

4 the subject of how to plank a hull has been posted many times already so for further reference search the forum

so let it drift

 

[Dave Stevens (Lumberyard)]

What continues to puzzle me is the repeated emphasis on professional modelers, professional standards, professional tools, museum requirements, and collector expectations.
How many modelers on this forum actually consider themselves professional modelers? My guess is very few (you are in this list).

ok lets reduce it and not use the term professional if we eliminate the higher end or make it level then what we end up with is the blind leading the blind. A builder buys a kit and comes to the forum looking for others with "more experience" from master builder to "yes i built that kit". What that builder does not want to hear is hey we are all just hobby guys and we have no idea so your pretty much on your own.

It would be a giant plus to SoS if the banner said come one come all to get modeling advice, modeling tips and information from professional model builders.
it is important for anyone from beginner to pro looking for information to trust the source.

for example a question from a beginner is the hull planking attached to a hull with wooden pegs? answer you can trust is NO iron planking spikes were used.
i have seen so many models with black deck caulking is that how it was done i want my model to be correct. answer not all some deck were caulked with lead so the caulking is white. Research you model.

SOS is not a professional trade organization or a forum dedicated exclusively to museum-quality work. It is a community of enthusiasts/hobbiests brought together by a shared interest in ship modeling.

it is not about a professional organization it is about members here qualified to provide the right information and not lead beginners astray with answers they read someplace else or made up or assumed.

How many modelers on this forum actually consider themselves professional modelers? My guess is very few (you are in this list).

ok i will own the title but be assured i am not a "master builder" that is another level above me. So by definition of professional am i?

1 participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs

box checked i do design kits and mill wood for model building as a livelihood. Although some will call what i do sheer garbage and warn people to stay away. So it is a matter of opinion or just a grudge

2 one that is professional : someone who does a job that requires special training, education, or skill

box checked i was a student for years under a master builder got many times a slap on the wrist for not being skillful enough, Trained in museum standard as a model ship competition judge

3 done by an expert.

this one is difficult because there are no degrees handed out so the definition of "expert" is iffy

4 define the professional by setting rigorous entry requirements. This classification requires demonstrating advanced knowledge,

ok this might be what is your experience your resume

i designed and built for the National parks
have models in museums
make a living designing kits and milling for model builders
trained by master builders
trained for museum standards for model competitions

here it is professional actually means very little there are very poor professionals in many fields and very good ones i would be considered a professional by definition only

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