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thinking to buy Scheppach basa3 220v need advice..

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ccfly

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i did till now couple no name sail boats (raw boat ,cutter l,some modern like with engine ,and pinto ,santa maria still in works missing plans for it ,ones i got are copy of copy and last 3 plans are like washed up nothing is visible so i quit and give all to friend )from some poland kits (was cheap to buy them but q is super low compared to these u guys build)
anyhow ,,i decide to build one from plans only (rn uss constitution1798 from model shipways ,hms bellona or victory if i find good plans that are looking good :) )
so question i would need to make parts so need wood ( wood is not problem we got a load of woodworkshops around) to be cut .
i read and read ,and came to some conclusion , to buy band saw Record BS300e
i will need somewhat larger cut space ,and ppl say it is ok 12'' band saw ..
now questions , do i need large saw like this ?
idea is to buy linden tree plank and recut it in slices for ship parts

ugh i made error on subject and manny spelling too..
i read for these 2 bandsaws and decide to get record 300e ,and write wrong one in subject ..

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I am from the serious scratch build wing. My view is "if you are going to do it, do it right." (Within reason - "reason" being an area open to debate). I have intuition for metric volume and weight (have to in Pharmacy) but not so much with length and distance - sorry but you will have to convert from Imperial.

Over here - a 12" bandsaw is not a common size. Benchtop 9" or 10" then floor model 14" 16" 18" (18" and 16" are more for professionals). It needs to be two wheel and have a powerful motor - going low on HP will come back to bite you on the arse.

3 - 4 TPI hook for the blade that resaws A 1/2" blade should be wide enough. The tracking is more about the quality of the saw. A wider blade 3/4" - 1" does not give better tracking - just more friction.
The mid point between the bottom of the gullet and the tip of the tooth should be at the crown of the upper wheel - just have to live with the chew on the liner surface.

Steel blades - too much set for resaw - really chews up the face of a slice.
expensive steel with minimum set and thin kerf like WoodSlicer or Infinity over here (I think the coils come from a French company so the EU should have its own version.) - cutting a few Linden planks - should be worth a look - cutting hundreds of linear feet of dense wood - this blade dulls too quickly
A bimetal blade is the sweet spot for me - it is about twice the cost of a WoodSlicer but lasts about ten times longer.
A carbide blade lasts longest. It is 4-5 times more expensive than a bimetal - but only lasts 10-20% longer - forget about the re-sharpen bit - advertising hype as applies to a home shop saw.

You do not say how you intend to construct your hulls:
carved layers
POF
PoB (plank on mold)

Linden is fine for carved but Pine (clear- tight or no knots - no sap or gum) is probably less expensive and just as effective.
I prefer much harder wood - for you Pear or Rowen ( Eberesche or Vogelbeerbaum ) or Hornbeam or some wood whose name begins with an "E" that we can't get, Sweet Cherry, Holly, Beech, Birch, Maple (Norway, Field, Sycamore) (not Soft Maple - never Soft Maple) .
No nut tree wood (Ash, Oak, Willow, Chestnut, Elm, Walnut) unless you are going to seal and paint it or hide it.
Nothing in the Populus family anywhere, for anything pure trash!

ccfly said:
pinto ,santa maria
Click to expand...
Any plans for any famous ship before 1700 are not real - they are a modern version of what someone imagines it could be.
If you start with the same sparce known data: any plans that you would design would be just as valid.

Go for the original design plans - Denmark has them - France has a few - ANM - Chapman has many to explore.

Then there are the Nautical Archaeology finds in your region - Koggs and Viking - practical for you.
 
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Like any other tool the type of power tool that you need depends on what you’re trying to do:

Cutting commercially sawn lumber into usable sizes (straight cuts). For this I would choose a table saw. A HIGH QUALITY band saw can do this too but requires careful adjustment.

Cutting curves in thick wood; thicker than about 1 cm. This is where a band saw excels.

Cutting curves in wood thinner than 1 cm. A powered scroll saw works for this.

There’s are just general guidelines. Choices will depend on what’s available where you live, space available, cost, etc.

Roger
 
ccfly said:
i decide to build one from plans only (rn uss constitution1798 from model shipways ,hms bellona or victory if i find good plans that are looking good
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There are choices and actions in project selection that I just do not understand. A big one is choosing kit plans for a scratch build.

There is no kit for the 1799 version of Constitution (USS did not become official until TR was president ~1900)
Kit plans are of a chimera of 100 years of changes, every generation's "modernizations", and then the 20thC. presentations for tourists with what they expect it to look like. Also, the "ironside" that was the national moral booster from 1812-1815 had been subject to upgrade from the as designed version. The closest that you will come to a real plan is the design plan for Constitution/President/United States 1799 - as drawn by HIC and is available from The Smithsonian Institution as a 1/4" scale as seen in HASN.
Bellona is easy and free ~1/4" at WIKI Commons download.
Victory 1765 is available as a print from RMG prints
WIKI Commons has a large number of free plans for a scratch build just pick one of the plans with MB file size. The KB size is the icon size from NMM(RMG) You do not needed to redo a ship that hundreds if not thousands have already done

If you are doing plank on mold - just trace the stations for the molds. You can make your own compromises with the design - there is not need to get stuck following a commercially restrained designer's compromises. You can pick your own scale and get a size that fits your environment.
You really should look closely at sliced and carved layers instead of PoB. No planking if you paint the hull. If your scale is smaller than 1/4" painting the bottom with copper particle paint gets you scale thickness. No planking there either.
 
thanks for answers i learn a bit more ...
now i am in trouble again ,, bassa 3 and power bs300e one ppl say one is great other is flimsy ..
and looking weight basa 3 have more weight and features vs power ..
plus price with shipping is 650for bassa 3 and 920 for power

these two use same lenght saws ordered 3 carbide blades two 15mm (max for cut) and one 6mm 3-4 tpi for fine small parts ,,
they have pine wood but it is full of knobs and holes,, in 4x4 (100x100mm) i can use like 2/3 of it ..
pear is no go ,, have charry for pretty side ..
now to finally decide to buy one and have fun :))
a bit ot question ancre monographs like le commerce de marseille - 1788 is enough to build ship ?

​

 
This is written in the spirit of the first lesson in the story of the frozen Russian bird:


ccfly said:
a bit ot question ancre monographs like le commerce de marseille - 1788 is enough to build ship ?
Click to expand...
Yes - way more than enough. BUT:

Collision alarm! Collision alarm! All hands to recovery stations! Black smoke, black smoke. Danger Will Robinson, danger!

Freeze where you are - carefully back out the the mine field that you are now in. Step only in your previous foot prints.

Based on this question - you do not know what you do not know.
Projecting from the minimal amount of data that is above - not know anything about you - so this is not personal to you.
DO NOT BUY any band saw. If you buy anything buy a USED high quality table saw. Wait on that even.

Let us look at this from an objective and theoretical point of view.
This is not the 1.5 meter deep lap pool that you think it is. It is actually the Pacific where there is no bottom. And a school of Tiger sharks closing in.

Read about scratch building. Read a lot - books - not the Web - U tube type videos are ego trips- bullshit.

Pick a first project that seems too simple - it will prove to be not as simple as you imagine.
Go to school on this - earn your way up the ladder.

ANCRE monographs:
Expensive
Being EU - maybe you will not have to sell your auto to pay for the shipping?
They are a trap if used as designed:
You do not learn how to do your own lofting
You can be seduced into thinking that you have to build the extra 60% that is actually hidden internal structure.
That will way more than double the build time. You have to butcher the good part - the outside - to even see all that pointless work.

When you are ready for a complicated - huge monster size - time sink project like Commerce de Marseille you will not have to ask anyone anything about it.

For a hobby, scratch build wooden and steel ships are about as far from being a frivolous undertaking as it gets. If you really want to be one of the ~5% who survive and then thrive - there are serious dues to be paid.

Dean
 
i know that ..build some easy 1/5 stars kit then 3/5 then some advanced ,,with ony plans and bunch parts
and last one was that step towared scratch ,,i got plans and woood sticks and that was it
compared to last one i atleast got body one that they laser cut so i can have ship skeleton
this last one was without ,so i build these too ,but using hand saw to cut it after i transfer drawing using transparent printing sheets .and cutout to wood (i use some thin floring wood ,5mm or .25'' thick)
then i use these sticks 2mm thin to adjust them to skeleton to make 1st hull .. all gaps i fill with wood filled and sanded ,then 0.5mm thick for outside hull ,i learn how to twist them (wood + heat ,i got 75w soldering
with 7mm round nickel like rod that goes inside of it , under nickel is copper ) so i use these steel forms with different curves thiink i got it from aliexpress for jewelery work ..i put wet wooden part on one of them and use soldering with that round rod to smooth it and wood take curve for ti ,, on vertical they put pic to build one on third ship manual if i rem ,,it is peace of wood and u drill load of holes in it and use 3 mm steel sticks to push and others to hold wood ,and when u get shape u use heat gun on it from distance..
huh so i guess by your warning ,,they out inside of hull loooad not needed parts ,been 3 deck ship so i guess lower is useless and prolly second is same or maybe to use just for edges for cannons ??
now q what u suggest for first true scratch build DAWarden ??

and biiiiiig thanks ..
 
Bootstrapping from timber to a scale ship. My kind of idiocy.

I have a bandsaw, and was using it just today on some holly given to me. Such good wood, white, tight grained, and full of sap.

A bandsaw is a good general purpose saw, and if you tune it up and make a couple of fitments it can serve you well.
First thing is to look at the blade guides top and bottom to ensure the blade is supported and running true. Read about this on the internet. Cheaper saws may use blocks rather than bearings, but be sure you have them set up, not quite touching, good and snug.
You may also want to change the insert plate and make up a zero clearance version for fine work.

Then look at the guides. Small bandsaws have small and inaccurate guides. Add a longer fence the width of the table or more. Ideally make it with a sliding faceplate that allows you to arrange things such that long cuts are able to be freed as soon as they have passed the blade.
For the angled mitre guide, again add a wooden extension to the provided one so that you support the work right up to the blade. Carefully set it to 90 degrees, and let the saw cut it to length. You will have a zero clearance 90 degree fence. Any other angle will need to be treated the same way. Your wooden fence is disposable, so don’t fret about making another.

Now you have a tool able to cut accurately.

Set up a rip blade, and run some strips off. If you are using green timber, cut well oversize, make up some spacers, and after cutting, rebuild the ‘log’ with spacers in place and then bid the whole thing to some timbers hefty enough to resist warping. Wait several months, depending on climate, then you can cut to desired sizes.
If you use already dry Timber, ot if you have dried you own, then proceed to cut frame or plank parts.
Using a hand plane(s) flatten one side of your rough lumber. Check the accuracy and cleanness of your blade. If OK, run the board almost to required thickness. Run hour hand plane over it to finish that face cleanly and accurately to thickness. A planing board is useful to ensure correct and consistent thickness.

Well done. You now have some timber you can turn into frames, planks, knees, or whatever else.

All that time waiting for the green wood to dry out? That’d when you read about how to make ship, how to work out and draw and fit the parts, and you draw up your own plans and cutting lists.

Ah yes, with a bandsaw you’re ready to go..

Jim
 
CC,

First, you can see that there is a lot involved with a bandsaw. Jim and I both probably learned hard lessons. For resawing, nothing else does that function as well. If you buy an inferior model bandsaw, there is much frustration and wasted wood.
The machine has to be setup just-so. It is not forgiving.

ccfly said:
now q what u suggest for first true scratch build DAWarden ??
Click to expand...
There is no easy answer to that question. This model ships thing goes from hollowed out logs to steel oil tankers and container ships. Any of it can be replicated using wood. (Polystyrene is probably better at mimicking steel but it is pure ugly at simulating wood.) To make all this manageable it helps to specialize.

My slice is POF - wood - 1650 - 1860. I know - this is the least unique choice. It is also where there is a lot of original data and where is the peak glory in form.

What are the areas that interest you?
Does a kogge?
I like the lines - does a schooner? or a brig?

If I was just starting scratch I would choose a schooner - and then I would find out which boat it carried and build that.
Then I would build the schooner - WL layers - hollow carved hull.

A bit deeper:

Being able to loft gives you freedom of choice for a subject.
A basic book on this. There are a couple.
then
Boatbuilding by H.I.Chapelle covers near modern wooden boats.
Following the directions left by Sir Anthony Deane in Deane's Doctrine of Naval Architecture provides a deep dive into wooden warship plans and design for 1670 era and a grounding in understanding the major follow-on changes starting about 30 years later.
For 18thC. English:
UNDERSTANDING SHIPS' DRAUGHTS PART 1 - 6 WHITE,DAVID MODEL SHIPWRIGHT 1983 - 1986 46 - 58
TRADITIONAL WOODEN SHIPBUILDING PART 1 - 8 WHITE,DAVID MODEL SHIPWRIGHT 1984 -1987 47 - 61
It is still under copyright so I do not know where someone starting today would get these.
 
For books and working from basic timber I always recommend Harold Underhill. He takes you through the process from pencil and blank paper to scale ship made in the manner of a full size. If you left out the scaled down dimensions you would end up with a complete, working, full size model.
 
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