HMS Victory 1:78 Mantua/Panart by Nat League

[Nat League]

OK, So I decided on the Mantua/Panart model of the HMS Victory for two reasons. One is the price of the Mantua was half the price of the Caldercraft. The other is that with the Caldercraft they provide pre-cut gunport strips. I prefer making my own gunports. So, the kit is on order and I will publish my progress here, once I get the kit.......

 

[Nat League]

I received my Mantua/Panart 1:78 model kit for the HMS Victory. I have reviewed the items in the kit; everything seems in order so far. I have reviewed the instructions and the 8 drawing sheets that came with the kit. The instructions are presented in Italian, English, German, French and Dutch. I have found many typos in the English translation. My initial concern is that the instructions are sparse and I will have to depend a lot on the pictures and data sheets provided as well as whatever I can learn from watching videos of other modellers who have build the same kit. The first 3 of the 8 drawing sheets are for part number identification of the parts on the laser-cut sheets. The instructions state that one should mark each part on the wooden sheets using drawing sheets 1-3 as a guide. I did this and found the data sheets to be easy to follow for this first step. I have included herewith some pictures of the marking of the parts. In the instructions it is recommended to buy part number Mantua 8155 (a keel clamp). At first I was going to make my own keel clamp. But, I noticed that later in the instructions the keel clamp is used to hold and shape some of the planking. So, I think I will buy their keel clamp thru Amazon.

 

[AllanKP69]

Nat League,
Do you or anyone following your build know why some kits seem to forget about the correct butt shift on the deck planking? These old ships did not have a two butt shift, but instead, they usually had a three or four butt shift for the deck planks. Probably just me, but this seems pretty basic and it is so noticeable. Victory today has a jumbled shift with three to six butt shifts in some areas, but mostly three butt shifts and never two. The laser cutting on the surface of the decking could have been done like on a real ship at virtually no extra cost.

One of HMS Victory's gundecks


From Peter Goodwin's The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War pages 58-59

 

[Nat League]

Allan, This is only my second wooden model. On the Vasa which I built, I used a 2 butt shift; probably per the instructions. I would have probably done the same on the Victory. However, I will reconsider based on your inquiry and some follow up research that I have done. I am assuming that I don't have to follow the butting shift etched into the decks in the kit. Thanks for bringing this up......... Nat League

 

[AllanKP69]

Nat League----- sounds like a baseball fan name, very cool if it is

Fixing these kinds of mistakes (kit bashing) like you are getting into is a great thing for many folks. Kudos for giving it a go!

Allan

 

[Nat League]

OK, So I am progressing with my build of the Mantua Panart 1:78 scale HMS Victory (see pictures below).

I must say that I am disappointed with the instructions that came with the kit. The directions and pictures are not up to par with the instructions and pictures I received when building the Vasa kit from DeAgnostini. One thing I am really struggling with now is the placement of parts 22 (2 ea) and 23 (1 ea). First, part 23 was not included. Through research I think I found out how to make part number 23. But I am still struggling with how to mount these three parts onto the stern section of the false keel. Any advice (pictures) would be welcomed. See pictures of parts 22 & 23 at end of this post.

 

[Nat League]

OK, So I am progressing with my build of the Mantua Panart 1:78 scale HMS Victory (see pictures below).

I must say that I am disappointed with the instructions that came with the kit. The directions and pictures are not up to par with the instructions and pictures I received when building the Vasa kit from DeAgnostini. One thing I am really struggling with now is the placement of parts 22 (2 ea) and 23 (1 ea). First, part 23 was not included. Through research I think I found out how to make part number 23. But I am still struggling with how to mount these three parts onto the stern section of the false keel. Any advice (pictures) would be welcomed. See pictures of parts 22 & 23 at end of this post.

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[Nat League]

So, I planked and installed the lower gun deck using the 4 butt shift see pictures below. I'm not terribly pleased with the planking of the lower gun deck but since most of it will be hidden, that's not a big deal.

I have also tacked on the first two rows of hull planking. I haven't glued them yet because I want to make sure they are perfectly positioned first.

I have also placed the mid and upper gun decks. These are not planked or glued in place. The instructions imply that I should plank & mount the mid and upper gun decks and mount the cabin onto the mid gun deck before planking the hull. I think I want to plank the hull before mounting the cabin. I also know that I have more work to do on the lower gun deck before I obstruct it with the other gun decks.

One more thing with the gun decks. All of my gun decks are .5 mm thick. On other builds of the Mantua HMS Victory the gun decks appear to be 5-6 mm thick. Not sure why they changed the deck thickness.

 

[Nat League]

OK, I have now planked the bow deck and glued the main deck into place. I have also moved the starting hull planking row several times and I think I am almost ready to start planking the area above that first row of planking. However, I am still fighting a problem. The poorly written instructions say to install the bow plank supports (I'm pretty sure they mean stern plank supports) part N. 22 & the triangular strip N. 23 as shown on picture N. 6. The picture below labeled part 22 issue 2 shows the pointed top of part 22 sticking out beyond the false keel. However, as you can see in the picture plate detail picture 6 and my picture part 22 issue 4, the pointed section does not stick out beyond the false keel. This makes it difficult for me to understand what part N. 23 looks like and how it mounts onto the ship. I have searched the web high and low and have found several inadequate and contradictory answers. Part number 23 is non-existent in the package. I have read online that you have to build it yourself per the to scale instructions shown in picture part 22 issue 2 below. But I can't figure out what part #23 looks like nor can I figure out how it interfaces with parts 22 and the false keel. If anyone reading this can provide any insight I would be most appreciative. I have come up with several ideas of what might work, but I am sure that my ideas don't match the intended structure. The whole purpose of parts 22 and part 23 (I believe) is to provide a termination point for the hull planking. Again, I say please HELP!

 

[Ivo]

Hi Nat League!

I'm building the same model as you, (HMS Victori Panart art.738, scale 1:78). I'm a complete beginner and this is my first wooden model. Due to my work and lifestyle, I haven't been able to consistently assemble this model, but I've tried to pick myself up every winter. In short, I'm not an expert, just a tinkerer.
Yes, I completely agree with you that the instructions for assembling a ship model are incorrect and sometimes incomplete.
I also lacked part N.23, but I thought it was a triangular strip that had to be installed on the lower edge of frame n.13, so that later its sound could be installed in the hull planking. In short, I made such a triangular strip, which I glued to the lower edge of frame n.13.

 

[Nat League]

I want to start by complaining about my kit manufacturer. Many people have complained about the instructions provided by Mantua and I have second those complaints and agree with them. But, I have a few more complaints about my 1:78 scale HMS Victory wooden ship kit from Mantua. First, many of the parts, including the decks and the transom are paper thin, i.e.; 2 mms or less. On other kits that I have seen online, from other people building the HMS Victory, these parts seem to be more like 5-6 mms thick. Second, this week I went through all of the dowels included with the kit for building the mast structures and found that I do not have enough dowels with the kit to build all of the mast structures; I have had to order additional dowels to have enough to complete the mast structures. Third, the space between the bow structure and the first set of supports bulkheads is too great to allow the required rounded shape of the planks that go around the bow. The kit includes two part #

Hi Nat League!

I'm building the same model as you, (HMS Victori Panart art.738, scale 1:78). I'm a complete beginner and this is my first wooden model. Due to my work and lifestyle, I haven't been able to consistently assemble this model, but I've tried to pick myself up every winter. In short, I'm not an expert, just a tinkerer.
Yes, I completely agree with you that the instructions for assembling a ship model are incorrect and sometimes incomplete.
I also lacked part N.23, but I thought it was a triangular strip that had to be installed on the lower edge of frame n.13, so that later its sound could be installed in the hull planking. In short, I made such a triangular strip, which I glued to the lower edge of frame n.13.

Ivo thanks for your reply. I am still struggling with how the planks go around the false keel on the stern end of the ship. Could you possibly send me a picture of the part 23 that you made as well as the dimensions for it? maybe that will help me understand what’s going on thank you.

 

[AllanKP69]

I am still struggling with how the planks go around the false keel on the stern end of the ship.

You might benefit from studying some of the photos of the sterns on the contemporary models on the RMG Collections site. One example is below. You may have to add some filler blocks between the aft most bulkhead and the stern post so there is some support and alllow the planks end in the rabbet at the post for the lower strakes and the lower edge of the lower counter for those strakes above it.
Allan

Another example is below

 

[AllanKP69]

I want to start by complaining about my kit manufacturer

A recent poll in SiS Magazine might be a good guide for kit choices for your next build. Anyone with experience with Modelship Dockyards would likely add it to the list on the very top. Portland seems like it will be at the top as well once they get into full swing.
Allan

 

[Nat League]

Thanks for the pictures. I have looked at dozens of pictures of how the finished product should look. What I am really struggling with is how to build the stern structure to receive the planks correctly. It would be nice if Mantua had shown some better structural pictures. But, I do have some ideas as to how I am going to build the structure. However, my ideas don't seem to line up with what Mantua is trying to explain in their instructions. I'll keep at it until I get it right, or at least close. Thanks again for your response. Your pictures show a very good angle for seeing how the planks need to run

 

[Ivo]

I don't have a picture of this detail no.23, but you just make a triangular strip there, which will help you install the planks in the stern later.
I have a picture of it when the first layer of planking is already installed in the stern.

 

[Nat League]

The pictures you included do help. Thanks

 

[GrantTyler]

Off to a fine start. Enjoy. Cheers Grant