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DESIGN AND FABRICATION

hum? seems like i am getting some feed back

i would like a set of bulkheads but unable to mill the hull planking.

ok then i see your point so for another 10 bucks i will include the hull planking
 
Another item to be addressed is the deck winch. The photos are indistinct but obviously a hit and miss engine of unknown manufacture, so any would do. it was mated with a winch mechanism. There are many photos on the internet, even drawings of an engine are there.

My model was built in 3/16=1 Foot scale, so I had to make my own engine and winch. It sits just in front of the mast.
 
I based mine on this mess. I have also added a graphic of a company logo for the engine. It is only good for larger models. It was too smallfor my model.

5BF27C2818EA4EEEB06C28B7E96F8236.jpg

novo logo.png
 
here is a picture of the deck winch following up on research i can ask Burger if they can identify the make and model of the winch. They knew exactly what the engine was so maybe they know something about the winch.
This is a low resolution image and a high resolution image is available from the Wisconsin Maritime Museum collection so in a high res image it would show better details.

winch.jpg
 
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We’re approaching Harvest Festival (aka Steam Show) season when collectors of these old engines get together. These old hit and miss gasoline engines once powered everything from washing machines to ship’s winches. These shows will feature dozens of these put-putting away. In addition to being fun, it might be a good opportunity to see what one of these engines looks like up close.
 
Roger Pellett said:
We’re approaching Harvest Festival (aka Steam Show) season when collectors of these old engines get together. These old hit and miss gasoline engines once powered everything from washing machines to ship’s winches. These shows will feature dozens of these put-putting away. In addition to being fun, it might be a good opportunity to see what one of these engines looks like up close.
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When I built my several years ago,I contacted Burger but never got a reply. Hope you have better luck. the winch is probably still on the wreck.
 
We’re approaching Harvest Festival (aka Steam Show) season when collectors of these old engines get together. These old hit and miss gasoline engines once powered everything from washing machines to ship’s winches. These shows will feature dozens of these put-putting away. In addition to being fun, it might be a good opportunity to see what one of these engines looks like up close

interesting how far back do gas powered winches go? so i will guess the White Swan used a powered winch another 3D model to create.

When I built my several years ago,I contacted Burger but never got a reply. Hope you have better luck. the winch is probably still on the wreck.

i am in contact with Ron at Burger and he has been really helpful so perhaps he might know something.
 
One other thought about laser cutting parts. go visit your local trophy store, Most do laser work.
My source near me does all my laser cutting. he does both wood and plastic.

my models use styrene for most parts. They always come out great. I don't use thick material, tho, mostly .010 to .040 thick.

I draw my parts in AutoCad send DXF files but he can convert to other formats. You have to give him clean file as he does not correct errors but will work with you.

If you live in the Sterling Heights. Michigan area I can give you his contact info. I will gladly be intermediary for you,

Happy ship scratch building.

Karl
 
The Coolspring Museum looks like a fascinating place. Unfortunately not in my neighborhood.

These hit and miss engines could be easily connected via chain drive to power a winch. The photo shows a lever held by the guy that would appear to be controlling a link to the engine.

Roger
 
I was wrong. I believe that the hit or miss gasoline engine is connected to the winch by gearing per Mariner1941’s post #63 above; not by a chain drive. If you compare Dave’s photo above with that in post #63, the black object at the left of the winch drum is a guard for the large spur gear. It looks like Mariner’s interpretation for his model was correct.

Roger
 
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back from my research trip to the power museum WOW! did i learn a lot.
so here is the type of engine used in the White Swan this one was salvaged form a tug boat

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The people there were very knowledgeable and extremely helpful. They knew the history of engines going back before 1900. talk about a collection building after building full of engines.

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even out in the fields

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here is a typical winch of the 1900 to 1930 era

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it is the theory from the engine experts the winch on the White Swan would most likely have been electric and not gas powered. These early engines were not gasoline-powered from the same gas we use today. back then gaslight was used and it was produced in limited amount, expensive to use.

DSCN9585.JPG
 
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As i said in the Sir Edward Hawke class art copies art a reason why you see the same ship subjects done over and over by different kit makers. This results in a limited selection for those wanting to expand and adventure out. the White Swan as say an engine room diorama is something you will not find and steam and oil powered ships have been ignored. The hobby is narrow and focus on lots of guns, sail ships and pretty carvings. The hobby seems to have slumped into stagnation and not attracting new builders maybe because the hobby needs to expand there are so many model engineering subjects to explore besides what is on the hobby shelf. So many ships to build and the most important is friendSHIP ha!
 
It looks like you had a great trip to the museum. So! Here’s the question. Did White Swan have an electrical plant capable of powering a winch? Electric generating plants aboard ships, first called “lighting plants” made an appearance aboard Great Lakes vessels in the mid 1880’s but many ships continued to sail without them. For example, only the later whaleback vessels built in the 1890’s were so equipped.

The steamer Benjamin Noble built in 1909 had an electric plant but all auxiliary machinery including deck and cargo winches was steam powered. On the other hand, White Swan was built in the 1920’s.

You can get a partial answer to this question by looking her up in one of the shipping registers now posted on line. These were published periodically and were used by shippers looking to charter vessels. The one that I found did indicate if ships listed had an electric plant.

The guy at the museum who mentioned “gas” was apparently referring to “city gas”; synthetic gas produced from coal. Many cities around the USA had synthetic gas plants; the most famous was located where the Watergate Apartments now stand in Washington DC. This was primarily used for street lighting. The difficulties of using this aboard ships are obvious.

Hit and miss engines were often used in rural areas where city gas was unavailable. In these cases they ran on liquid fuels. Research, however, indicates that they might be a poor choice to power a winch. Hit and miss engines are considered to be Flywheel Machines. They store energy and only fire when a governor senses that RPM has fallen below a preset level. This would make them a poor choice to power a winch.

Interesting stuff, at least for me.

Roger
 
the engine on the WS did have an electrical generator. yes it was gas light, city gas that was used in street lighting pumped from the plant through lead pipes to the street lights. Someone walked the streets at dusk lighting the lights. It was a closed system there were no "gas" stations for gas powered ship equipment
as for manufacturing these early engines they were built in small shops From Chicago to New York and around the great lakes there were 2,700 to 3,000 shops building these engines. They were built local because they were so heavy rail freight was way too expensive. An engine that generated 12HP would weigh 5 tons. Every city had a cast iron foundry or two or three because cooking pans were cast iron as well as bathtubs and a lot of common items were cast iron so cast iron engine parts were a local business that saved on shipping.

So when your researching parts for ships look for a local foundry and shops. You find this information at local historical societies.

i did ask for a 5 ton engine the size of a pick up truck how come the max was 12 HP? when you got engines that fit under the hood that produce 800 HP?
the answer the more the engine produce RPMs the more HP but the higher the RPM the greater the vibrations and the more that had an impact on a ships hull. That was the engineers problem to solve in the early days of engines in ships. The heat generated by these early engines were more than you think. hot running engines in a wooden ship hum?
 
why go from steam ships to internal combustion? the navy steam ship Mississippi burned 1.5 tons of coal per hour and because salt water corroded the boilers causing them to explode. Some engineer had a aha! moment why build a raging hot fire in a wooden ship to power an engine when you can contain the burn within the engine itself.

the vast nature of maritime engineering, its evolution, the why and how, is a deep dive into the art of model ship building
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
because salt water corroded the boilers causing them to explode.
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This was a new one for me as I had no idea early boilers used salt water rather than fresh to make steam. The scale build up would have been incredible and create havoc in the tubes if water tube type or maybe even if fire tube type. I only remember the D type (and amazed that I still do :)) and handling fresh water to make steam, use it, condense it, recycle it to make steam again was enough of a chore, let alone having to use salt water!
Allan
 
Early steamships did use saltwater but they also had condensing engines. Steam leaving the engine cylinders passed into a Jet Condenser. Jet condensers work by spraying water directly into the exhaust steam to condense it. Like the water that fed the boilers water for the jet condenser was drawn directly from the ocean. The feed water system pumped excess condensed water overboard to keep from flooding the boilers. The shell and tube heat exchanger that kept the exhaust steam and water that condensed it was a later development.

Steamships on the Great Lakes that sailed in fresh water continued to use jet condensers well into the Twentieth Century. The whaleback steamship SS Meteor built in 1896 and that sailed until 1970 still has her jet condenser.

Roger
 
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