3D Printing v. Wood Carving

Sgt_Bill

Sgt_Bill

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This is kind of a straw poll. Does incorporating 3d printing take away from the art value of a scratch built model? Case in point: I used cad-cam to create the ship's wheel from the Triton drawings. The spindes/spokes were profiled and made 3d. They were then attached to the wheel. Two 3D stl files were created and my Elegoo Mars II did the rest. I assembled, painted. The assembly is about 1 1/2" tall. See the results. I have used my 3D printing for cannon Barrels, quions, support posts as well.
Alternately I could have used a lathe for the 20 spindles, carved the supports, etc. I will tell you,20231024_211648.jpg I would not have achieved the 3D model's accuracy.
 
art is whatever the artist says it is
Salvador Dali

a few week ago my wife and i went to an art show and there was this artist who did 3D printed pieces they were mesmerizing. So with that in mind 3D printing is an art forn unto itself. Adding it to a model would not in the least take away from the art value it would add to it.

BUT if you built a model and bought all the 3D printed pieces then it becomes a kit and that devalues the model. On the other hand if the model is scratch built along with the 3D printed pieces all done by the hand of the artist/crafteman it is an original piece regardless what medium you choose to use.

a while back this came up in the community of model ship building and some replies were "i would never ever be caught adding anything plastic to my wooden model" or "3d printing is cheating becaus the builder is not skilled enough to hand carve the pieces" that is the biggest pile of bull i ever heard. Go ahead and sculpt a 3D piece and print it i will tell you it is not that easy.

i am working on a stern model of the Alfred with all 3D printed carvings and i call it art so if you don't like it i don't care
 
I've always thought of 3D printing as kind of cheating but I'm slowly changing my mind. It's not wrong, it's just different. The effort/skill is spent in programming rather than carving/turning. That said, I do think that 3D printing will always have a bit of a stigma against it as it is not "traditional".
 
what is "traditional"?

some regard the admiralty models as the state of the art and thieir construction and materials as "traditional". As Boxwood and Pearwood are the traditional woods used. However modern admiralty models cannons are turned out of metal or cast. This is a break from traditional methods because old admiralty models cannons are made of wood.
 
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I was pretty much against 3D prints as opposed to timber carving. I still believe that carving is superior to 3D prints but... as I am building a Batavia kit from Kolderstock these days I have to admit that the provided 3D print decorations are superior. To this scale (1:72) I could not have carved the necessary decos at the detail of the print. They are simply stunning. So here I am eating my words...
János
 
As a card-carrying member of the 'flat earth society' (genuine luddite) I have to admit that its funny that a bunch of old people are debating what the newest generation has already figured out ROTF ROTF ROTF...

Seriously, whatever makes it a 'hobby' for you is the right answer. For me, the thought of creating something on my computer hasn't captured my interest (yet). I still like the idea (and act) of making things with my hands. That's the 'hobby' for me...
 
Corsair said:
So, those of you that feel that 3D printing is "cheating", how is it any different than building a kit that uses molded metal parts?
At the same time, you can get to the point where you print the entire ship, is that then really building a wooden ship model?
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I totally agree with you on this. There is no difference between kit castings and 3d printed parts except someone else did them for you. That's why I qualified the thread as "scratch built". Beyond that, printing a whole ship from cad to 3D would be a monsterous undertaking. One perspective on "traditional" struck me. I use cad to create frame patterns. William Romero did Autocad in his "Warrior practicum" . You could even go as far as scrutinizing adhesives. Will they last?
 
Sgt_Bill said:
This is kind of a straw poll. Does incorporating 3d printing take away from the art value of a scratch built model? Case in point: I used cad-cam to create the ship's wheel from the Triton drawings. The spindes/spokes were profiled and made 3d. They were then attached to the wheel. Two 3D stl files were created and my Elegoo Mars II did the rest. I assembled, painted. The assembly is about 1 1/2" tall. See the results. I have used my 3D printing for cannon Barrels, quions, support posts as well.
Alternately I could have used a lathe for the 20 spindles, carved the supports, etc. I will tell you,View attachment 416505 I would not have achieved the 3D model's accuracy.
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I have decided to employ 3D printing on occasion when at scale, I want to achieve the detail I could otherwise not attain. At 77 years, I cannot accurately carve tiny pieces from wood. I can use a lathe and mill too but these are just additional tools, like the 3D printer used to mill pieces for use on ships. My Christmas present, with my better half's agreement, was to get a 3D printer and proceed. ( She does want me to print small, unique flower pots for her ever-growing succulent collection). It'll be interesting and fun. I want my models to be inspiring and fun to look at. There will be a learning curve because 3D printing comes with a lot of variables to overcome and understand. But I do need something to keep me busy!
 
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This winter I am working on 3D Design and Cad for both CNC and 3D printing. I am in the process of converting the monograph of L’Egyptienne from Ancre to digital format so I can use my CNC machine or 3D printer to make some of the parts. This model has 75 doubled frames, so I need to build 150 frames just for the hull framing.
If I had to do this repetitive work by the old traditional methods would take me more than 1 year due to the arthritis in my hands and could cause me leave this hobby.
My conversion to digital vector format will take about a week of hobby time work. Once in vector format I can use CNC milling machine or 3D Printer. If I use the 3D printer I can choose to print in a “Wood Filament”
I am not trying to build a perfect replica model of this ship and its building methods, but I do want to build the best "representation" model I can. I see no difference in using 3D printing for some parts.

This is developing into a very interesting winter experience.
 
from past discussions of print or CNC or laser cutting vs hand made it was those who were accomplished at carving that were opposed to the printing. The pro printers are those who do not have the carving skills.
Could it boil down to this?

someone with exceptional skills builds a model with all the carvings done by hand and produces a one of a kind piece of art which very few can do. This puts those with such skills in an elite master class which they very well deserve. Then a tech savvy guy comes along with his graphic work station with CAD and modeling software plugged in to laser, a printer and a CNC and says "ya that look good but i can do that and better because i have high resolution i can put a hole in a button on his coat." setting side by side the tech version is way more detailed the symmetry is perfect which is hard to do by hand.
So the skills of the elite master class have been challenged they are no longer at the top. However, they are not challenged by machines, Machines are stupid it is the skills and tech knowledge of the person using those machines. Both artists using different tools.

but wait that graphic work station and its software the language it uses is numbers CAD drawing is all about math and numbers so is CNC and Lasers and printing.
Oh my so is it all like a paint by numbers? now that is another bag.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
from past discussions of print or CNC or laser cutting vs hand made it was those who were accomplished at carving that were opposed to the printing. The pro printers are those who do not have the carving skills.
Could it boil down to this?

someone with exceptional skills builds a model with all the carvings done by hand and produces a one of a kind piece of art which very few can do. This puts those with such skills in an elite master class which they very well deserve. Then a tech savvy guy comes along with his graphic work station with CAD and modeling software plugged in to laser, a printer and a CNC and says "ya that look good but i can do that and better because i have high resolution i can put a hole in a button on his coat." setting side by side the tech version is way more detailed the symmetry is perfect which is hard to do by hand.
So the skills of the elite master class have been challenged they are no longer at the top. However, they are not challenged by machines, Machines are stupid it is the skills and tech knowledge of the person using those machines. Both artists using different tools.

but wait that graphic work station and its software the language it uses is numbers CAD drawing is all about math and numbers so is CNC and Lasers and printing.
Oh my so is it all like a paint by numbers? now that is another bag.
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Dave is stirring the pot again with a real big spoon ! (but its a hand carved wood spoon!) ROTF
 
Corsair said:
Dave is stirring the pot again with a real big spoon ! (but its a hand carved wood spoon!) ROTF
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yup a good discussion gets you thinking and the blood flowing there is so much more to this community than building ship models it is about the people and everything we are involved in.

i remember way back when my brother passed away that was hard times i posted on a model ship forum at the time i lost my brother. The administration posted the comment "this is about model ship building and removed my post." cold i thought i was among friends guess not.
We are about everything we do not have to be so cold and restricted to model ships
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
what is "traditional"?

some regard the admiralty models as the state of the art and thieir construction and materials as "traditional". As Boxwood and Pearwood are the traditional woods used. However modern admiralty models cannons are turned out of metal or cast. This is a break from traditional methods because old admiralty models cannons are made of wood.
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That's why I put it in quotes. It's kind of a nebulous thing. It's there, but it's too convoluted define. :) How's that;)
 
Don Case said:
That's why I put it in quotes. It's kind of a nebulous thing. It's there, but it's too convoluted define. :) How's that;)
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good reply Don how's that you ask i like it

but then again i heard traditional model ship building tossed around like a volly ball.
is it the Norman Rockwell image of an old bearded sailor sitting on the dock carving a hull from a block of wood?
 
I stumbled upon reading all the replies, and honestly, I have the answer. A so-called 'traditional' way is only traditional simply because other carving methods don't exist. Most times, traditional carvers, use tools made by themselves suitable for a given job, They use any possible sharp objects. Then they made hand tools for carvers (chisels and knives). Then, a moto-tool was invented in 1935 by Dremel (image below).
1703697375122.png

following 1937 the tool called Handee Tool was made in Chicago.

1703697455486.png

Do you think that carvers didn't utilize those rotary tools because it is not so-called 'traditional'? I can't find the proof, but I guarantee, they utilize those and other tools to make the job easy, not even thinking about the 'traditional' way of carving. A new technology introduces the world of CNC machines to make carving even more easier and precise. Now, the images below also depict the carving. Yes, it does use the chainsaw, again not a 'traditional', But the result is an amazing masterpiece, IMHO
1703697923739.png 1703697964789.png

What is the Carving? An object or design cut from a hard material is an artistic work. It doesn't define what tools you should use to make an artistic work. But it does define the word CUT, which means the object must be cut. It can be cut by hand tools or machinery (rotary tool, or CNC) or other tools you may suitable for.
3D printing is also artistic work and acceptable for shipmodeling, the only thing is you cannot call it carving as there is no cut involved, but does that matter?
 
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