3D Printing v. Wood Carving

I noticed the use of the word "cheating". I went back in the thread and found that I was the first one to use that word. I apologize for that. I wasn't meaning it as breaking some long held rules, it was aimed inward, at myself. Someone said that you can't cheat yourself. That kind of disagrees with every teacher I've ever had :) If I am building something I like to do as much as possible myself. I like to think of it as a pride thing but in reality I think it's based on being cheap. Someone mentioned scratch building as starting with planting a tree. I did that but not deliberately. I fed the bluejay that planted the tree and then used that wood to build the Discovery1789. I did buy the blocks from Dry Dock. I call that "cheating". Making a couple of hundred 2.5mm blocks was just beyond my abilities. To me, I feel bad about this but it doesn't matter because the Discovery is something I'm doing for myself, nobody else. There is no real cheating involved in model building unless you are entering it a contest.
Everyone has their own self imposed standards. If you want to use high tech methods, go for it.
 
WojtasS said:
I also thought such opionion about buying not making extra parts is song of the past, but some time ago I stumbled on disscusion with person who had such view. It also came with the package:"I'm tru modeler, because I make every part from scratch, kids these days want to everything right now and technology makes making model too easy..." and so on, so on. You couldn't deny him talent, but personality and friendliness.... I won't comment on that.
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There is no definition of a true modeler ;) Unless you are participating in competitions there are no rules for scale modelers whether you are a scratch builder or assembling/bashing the kit. Maybe that person is very talented and highly skilled and might have the ability (pieces of machinery, wood stock) to fabricate parts but it doesn't mean he is a true scale modeler. He is just one of us, talented and skilled.

I would love to make my gun barrels, and maybe in the future I will (...I doubt), but I need to learn machine turning and purchase a metal lathe. Should I stop and wait until then?

Whatever we do, even if someone doesn't like it, it is our art, at least for ourselves it is, and the rest doesn't matter. If they will be called a kit basher instead. Do I care? No, I DO NOT! :p
 
WojtasS said:
It also came with the package:"I'm tru modeler, because I make every part from scratch,
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According to your friend package, those models are built by a true modeler, they build from scratch...or maybe not? He didn't make the thread, the shells, even hoocks...

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Jimsky said:
According to your friend package, those models are built by a true modeler, they build from scratch...or maybe not? He didn't make the thread, the shells, even hoocks...

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He was actually making a very high quality model. It was impossible to get anything out of the discussion because he didn't listen to any arguments and behaved a bit like a di**. Any way, no need to dwell on it more there are more interesting topics to talk about;)
 
I use two different 3D printers to produce details for my scratch built ships that are otherwise made from wood and I learned the hard way that it is entirely possible to produce rubbish and beautiful scale objects from both "traditional" wood carving and from 3D printing. I think what matters is the result, and a quality outcome always requires skill, patience and attention to detail whatever approach you take.
 
Sgt_Bill said:
I totally agree with you on this. There is no difference between kit castings and 3d printed parts except someone else did them for you. That's why I qualified the thread as "scratch built". Beyond that, printing a whole ship from cad to 3D would be a monsterous undertaking. One perspective on "traditional" struck me. I use cad to create frame patterns. William Romero did Autocad in his "Warrior practicum" . You could even go as far as scrutinizing adhesives. Will they last?
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I have been scrutinizing adhesives for years for just that reason, their historic appropriateness, reversibility and archival qualities being the pertinent questions in restoration and straight up model building.
 
Unless you are scratch building a model then using a kit could be construed as " not traditional" . My opinion is that you use the tools and materials you have to hand to make your model in your own way . If you want to buy parts from the model makers to enhance your model that is your own prerogative , if you can afford a 3d printer and want to spend time designing and making them and you get pleasure from it then fire away, the end result is what matters and as long as you are satisfied with your work then be happy you created something that gives you and others some pleasure in looking at it .
 
If you're using your hands & brain to create anything, whether lathe or computer, in my opinion, it's art, & as long as it looks good, I will continue to be amazed at the ingenuity of ship modelers!
Rick1011
 
To me, this post is fascinating. The diversity of the responses tells the story. I see the context of this question to be within the "scratch" category, excluding the competition subcategory. Also, as someone stated not apples(kits) to oranges(scratch).

With the above stated, I feel the majority of the build and its parts should be hand made in order to be scratch. To purchase certain elements to add/enhance your model is just fine. Most modelers do not have all of the skills or equipment to produce every element of their build to the quality they desire. Some may not be able to afford a mill or lathe. And when it comes to really difficult tasks like carving tiny intricate figurines, forget it. So for any reason you cannot build it yourself, sub contract it out.

Now, here comes the fascinating thing for me. With the advent of technology, innovation and ingenuity of ambitious business folks, I think the day may come where you will be able to buy every component of a certain ship and assemble the pieces. ROTF Obviously, this would not be scratch building. It would be a 3 dimensional jig saw puzzle.

Personally, I'll leave the formalities to the competition committee. For me, it's about building something where there was nothing before, challenge my mind and bring me joy. Give me these three things and I'll be a happy modeler.
 
I gladly use 3D printed parts (my son has several 3D printers and I use Fusion 360) when they are unavailable elsewhere (like a cannon design in a size or type not available) or when it would be impossible for me to construct the part in another medium, or when the result looks better than otherwise could be obtained and the resulting 3D part does not stand out as not fitting in. And while I enjoy designing parts for 3D printing in Fusion 360, I don't feel they have to be self-designed to be used on a model, any more than brass cannon barrels have to be self-made by me. I do not feel this cheapens the model, any more than laser-cut pieces make a model less desirable than jig-saw-cut pieces.

And after all, this is a hobby. I think most all of us are building for the enjoyment of building. Sure, we're happy and proud with the result (hopefully), but we don't want to buy or receive a gift of a completed model - we want to build it. And we all take shortcuts. Few among us carve or create our own blocks, but some do. Most of us still use purchased or kit rope, but many make their own. If any "shortcut" or "cheat" helps us enjoy the hobby more, and appreciate the result more, I think it's just fine.
 
Dave Stevens (Lumberyard) said:
yup a good discussion gets you thinking and the blood flowing there is so much more to this community than building ship models it is about the people and everything we are involved in.

i remember way back when my brother passed away that was hard times i posted on a model ship forum at the time i lost my brother. The administration posted the comment "this is about model ship building and removed my post." cold i thought i was among friends guess not.
We are about everything we do not have to be so cold and restricted to model ships
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Fortunately, on this forum, recent posts have proven that that attitude about what is appropriate no longer or does not apply. The responses of condolence to members or their kin becoming ill or passing have been heart felt as well as warming here, from the Administrators on down. I have lost two brothers. The second and most recent was not even by blood, but my brother none the less, and you have my deepest sympathy on the loss of yours. I am sure that I can say the same for all your spiritual brethren on this forum.

Pete
 
I made a career out of modeling 3d parts ( for automated machines) that were then machined via cnc machines (a tool). I've always considered myself as an artist of some kind qiven the shapes I gave to my parts, to the point that I was given the title ( really non official) of master "italiano bracketo designer" in reference to the artistic talents of the italians and me being 50% italian. So in my eye, 3d modeling is no different from any other type of modeling, it's just a different medium. As for my 3d printers, well they're just more tools in my toolbox.
 
Peter Gutterman said:
Fortunately, on this forum, recent posts have proven that that attitude about what is appropriate no longer or does not apply. The responses of condolence to members or their kin becoming ill or passing have been heart felt as well as warming here, from the Administrators on down. I have lost two brothers. The second and most recent was not even by blood, but my brother none the less, and you have my deepest sympathy on the loss of yours. I am sure that I can say the same for all your spiritual brethren on this forum.

Pete
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Thank you for that, years have passed and life has moved on. but your right SoS has always been about the people first.
 
Fascinating discussion. Thanks! My desire is creating a finished model that I am satisfied is my best build…no matter how I get from laying down the keel to tying off the flag halyard. I do not hesitate to take advantage of parts from online sources if they enhance my build. I use the better pieces/parts I can no matter the source. I build from kits…usually I kit bash pieces/parts depending on the quality of the kit. The usual parts to bash would be blocks, rigging threads, and sometimes a better quality wood for decking (which I often finish natural thus giving a better wood worthwhile). I choose my kits carefully and I have thus far been good with the quality of kit materials. I am currently building the Victory kit Revenge 1577. I have had very little parts upgrades. I am starting the rigging phase and even the kit thread is acceptable. Anyway, still, a great discussion thread!
 
danielsje said:
Fascinating discussion. Thanks! My desire is creating a finished model that I am satisfied is my best build…no matter how I get from laying down the keel to tying off the flag halyard. I do not hesitate to take advantage of parts from online sources if they enhance my build. I use the better pieces/parts I can no matter the source. I build from kits…usually I kit bash pieces/parts depending on the quality of the kit. The usual parts to bash would be blocks, rigging threads, and sometimes a better quality wood for decking (which I often finish natural thus giving a better wood worthwhile). I choose my kits carefully and I have thus far been good with the quality of kit materials. I am currently building the Victory kit Revenge 1577. I have had very little parts upgrades. I am starting the rigging phase and even the kit thread is acceptable. Anyway, still, a great discussion thread!
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I totally agree--it depends on your objective--are you looking to create a 100% accurate replica or do you just enjoy the absorbing task of crafting different aspects of the ship. Very few people can carve in the scale needed and most of us are happy to accept the stuff that comes cast in kits. If you can improve on it why not?
 
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