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Actual length of Soleil Royal in 1669

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paulb

paulb

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What was the length of the Soleil Royal in 1669? From what I can tell it was 200 ft. If that's true the ZHL model of it isn't 1/90 - it's 1/60. I must be wrong here. Can anyone help out?

This link:
troisponts.net

Les « Soleil Royal » de la Marine française

Le règlement du 4 juillet 1670 précise : « Les seuls vaisseaux le Royal-Louis et le Soleil Royal, auront un château sur l’avant de leur troisième pont ; et à l’égard de tous les autres …
troisponts.net troisponts.net
says the length is 164 ft 6 in.

If it's actually 1/90 scale that would make it 303 feet long.

The ZHL version is only 3 mm shorter than the Mantua - that has a scale of 1/77.

I’m really confused. I have the ZHL SL on order so it’s of interest to me.
 
Last edited:
paulb said:
I guess nobody cares lol.
Click to expand...

G'day Paul, I don't think it's a case that nobody cares, it might just be that like me no one knows what the actual size of the ship is, some measure the total length of the ship from bow to stern and some from the tip of the bowsprit to the end of the gaff, so it can all depend which measurements have been used, hope you solve it soon,

Best regards John,
 
paulb said:
What was the length of the Soleil Royal in 1669? From what I can tell it was 200 ft. If that's true the ZHL model of it isn't 1/90 - it's 1/60. I must be wrong here. Can anyone help out?

This link:
troisponts.net

Les « Soleil Royal » de la Marine française

Le règlement du 4 juillet 1670 précise : « Les seuls vaisseaux le Royal-Louis et le Soleil Royal, auront un château sur l’avant de leur troisième pont ; et à l’égard de tous les autres …
troisponts.net troisponts.net
says the length is 164 ft 6 in.

If it's actually 1/90 scale that would make it 303 feet long.

The ZHL version is only 3 mm shorter than the Mantua - that has a scale of 1/77.

I’m really confused. I have the ZHL SL on order so it’s of interest to me.
Click to expand...
Paul
Rif Winfield says (French Warships in the Age of Sail, 1626–1786)

Winfield_French_Warships_in_the Age _of_Sale_01.JPG
Winfield_French_Warships_in_the Age _of_Sale_02.JPG
Winfield_French_Warships_in_the Age _of_Sale_03.JPG

So 164 ft 6 inches would be right for the gun deck and 142 ft for the keel.
 
Yup, that’s what I got too. So the overall length would be somewhere less than 200 feet when you add the bow spirit. The ZHF SL is 1027 mm long which translates to 3,37 feet. So assuming the full scale SL is 200 feet long (for arguments sake), that means the ZHF SL scale is 1/59 - round that to 1/60. That’s quite a bit different than the advertised scale of 1/90.
 
paulb said:
Yup, that’s what I got too. So the overall length would be somewhere less than 200 feet when you add the bow spirit. The ZHF SL is 1027 mm long which translates to 3,37 feet. So assuming the full scale SL is 200 feet long (for arguments sake), that means the ZHF SL scale is 1/59 - round that to 1/60. That’s quite a bit different than the advertised scale of 1/90.
Click to expand...
I agree. Seems like the quoted scale is way out. At 1:90 scale I reckon the model should be about 22" long on the gun deck, or a bit over 50% of what you have from ZHF (perhaps you could add a bit for the boom if that's what they measure).
 
And, unfortunately, it is not only the matter of the length. But everything else (heights, widths, staircase step heights, gun carriage sizes etc), everything depends on scale. If ZHL says it's model is 1:90 but in reality it is 1:60 than the dimensions of every detail are wrong. So is it worthwhile to build this model at all?
Janos
 
Janos - now that's a really good question. My order hasn't shipped yet and I can still cancel it. Can anyone chime in on Janos' question?
 
janos said:
And, unfortunately, it is not only the matter of the length. But everything else (heights, widths, staircase step heights, gun carriage sizes etc), everything depends on scale. If ZHL says it's model is 1:90 but in reality it is 1:60 than the dimensions of every detail are wrong. So is it worthwhile to build this model at all?
Janos
Click to expand...
Not nesecerelly everything wrong,all the wooden Hms Victory kit’s scale is wrong to their size Caldercraft 1:72 is in reality more like 1:48 ish
 
paulb said:
Wow, that’s crazy. How hard is it to get the scale correct?
Click to expand...
Its not but somewherere happened,or the planset they used to design the first Victory kit,or by purpose,or they never verified the accuracy,and than all the other Victory kit mfgs just copied the wrong inaccurate scale planset
 
Nearly every kit on the market (if not all) are out of scale from actual/historical ships. Just an fyi...
 
I can understand a 10 or even 20% error, but to go from 1/90 to 1/60 is a bit much. I guess I’m getting educated here.
 
I just checked my Heller Victory - it measures 35 inches overall. On wikipedia it says the Victory is 227.5 feet; that translates to a scale of 1/78 for the model.
 
mrshanks said:
Nearly every kit on the market (if not all) are out of scale from actual/historical ships. Just an fyi...
Click to expand...
That becomes a worry if you build from scratch to the correct dimensions and then buy a kit to match your model. Or parts like blocks, cannon etc. I'm just awaiting delivery of the Model Shipways 18th century longboat which is stated as 1:48 scale (to match my HMS Medea build). If it's not to scale it won't fit on the deck of my Medea as planned.
Fingers crossed.
 
Jimsky said:
...then you will make one from scratch, It will be a proper scale for sure, and most likely look better! A scratch-built Medea needs a scratch-built boat!! ;)
Click to expand...
In an ideal world, Jim, but I have never built a wooden kit before so I need to do this to learn some more skills for my scratch build. There is also a pinnace and cutter to build later when I have a deck to place them on :cool:
 
Usually...it is opposite, first kits, then scratch build! Sorry for the spam. Unless you really want to try building from kit...
 
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