"Flying Cloud " by Mamoli - kit bash

[ClipperFan]

Wonders of the internet. I'll look him up. This is another one of those things that i never new of before and now don't know how I can live without!

Peter,
"Sail, the Romance of the Clipper Ships" are my favorites. If you can't afford to spring for the pricey originals, a nice 1972 cased collection of all three volumes will get you the same illustrations. Here are a few more of my favorite works of his:
(1) 1852 McKay extreme clipper Sovereign of the Seas
(2) 1972 "Sail, the Romance of the Clipper Ships" slipcase
(3) 1889 General Trader Neotsfield chosen for the 1972 slipcase cover art
(4) 1853 James Baines Black Ball Line Australian McKay built extreme clipper Lightning
(5) 1869 famous Scottish tea clipper Cutty Sark ploughing through the waves

 

[Peter Gutterman]

Found one on ABE books.

 

[WilliamM]

Agreed. It's all about the romance!

Agreed. The edifices of gilt and sculpted grandeur of the17th and 18th centuries are pretty compelling. But nothing embodies (IMHO) the romance of sail like that painting of Flying Cloud booming along under a full spread of canvas.
Clippers are, well,..sexy

I have to admit that I normally build sailing warships, but clippers are just that . . . sexy. Flying Cloud is perhaps my favorite but Thermopylae its equal. I know have both. I also have the old Scientific Models Cutty Sark, Sovereign of the Seas (Clipper), and Sea Witch. I just picked up Chappelle's book The Search for Speed UnderSail. Life is good but it's getting better!

Bill

 

[ClipperFan]

Found one on ABE books.

Peter,
Sweet! Congratulations. My late Father-in-Law had a set of the 1972 editions, which he graciously let me peruse. That was my introduction to the fabulous artwork of Jack Spurling. Actually, I saw the Cutty Sark painting as a small monochrome piece in the Revell brochure which accompanied their large 3-foot model in the 60s. Now, thanks to on-line sources, I own a nice 14" x 17" full color reproduction of her.

 

[ClipperFan]

I have to admit that I normally build sailing warships, but clippers are just that . . . sexy. Flying Cloud is perhaps my favorite but Thermopylae its equal. I know have both. I also have the old Scientific Models Cutty Sark, Sovereign of the Seas (Clipper), and Sea Witch. I just picked up Chappelle's book The Search for Speed UnderSail. Life is good but it's getting better!

Bill

Bill,
The Aberdeen tea clipper Thermopylae is another favorite of mine, primarily due to her lovely green hull. I think Cyril Hume has an excellent highly detailed scale replica of her, which you can find on-line. Her all-white figurehead is of Spartan King Leonidas in military garb, wearing a plumed helm, carrying a round shield on his left arm holding his broadsword extended down in his right hand. McKay's extreme clipper Sovereign of the Seas has a full-sized figure of a merman, holding a conch shell as if he's blowing it. It's my belief that McKay would still install the same naval hoods as on his other clippers. meanwhile, the long fishtail of the merman would occupy most of the space of the cutwater. This particular vessel is another one where modelers have misinterpreted the rear coach house, which is ludicrously small and makes no logical sense. If you read the Boston Daily Atlas description, the rear coach house is similar to that on the Flying Fish. I actually have a photo of her which proves this. When you're ready to start building, I'll be glad to share more details with you.

 

[Peter Gutterman]

I have to admit that I normally build sailing warships, but clippers are just that . . . sexy. Flying Cloud is perhaps my favorite but Thermopylae its equal. I know have both. I also have the old Scientific Models Cutty Sark, Sovereign of the Seas (Clipper), and Sea Witch. I just picked up Chappelle's book The Search for Speed UnderSail. Life is good but it's getting better!

Bill

I went on an Ebay binge and bought The Scientific kits you mentioned and a few others (With the intention that when my wife and are forced to face the inevitable downsizing and probably assisted living) that I'll have a stash of models that won't take up an entire basement workshop to work on.
I had a customer that had a VERY large clipper model (at least 50" on deck) that needed a complete overhaul. I got carte blanche to not only restore but embellish. Took about six years. The model was a dead ringer for the Wild Pigeon in Chappelle's book. The guy has it in his office in the enormous custom mahogany and plexiglass case that my cabinet maker and I fabricated for it. He has a printing company, so he copied out the Wild Pigeon plan, blew it up, changed the name on it to his ship, the "Delia F. Baker" and mounted it on the wall behind the model in his office.
The guy comes from an old new England sailing family with a lot of astonishing history.
Life has, indeed been good!

 

[Peter Gutterman]

Peter,
Sweet! Congratulations. My late Father-in-Law had a set of the 1972 editions, which he graciously let me peruse. That was my introduction to the fabulous artwork of Jack Spurling. Actually, I saw the Cutty Sark painting as a small monochrome piece in the Revell brochure which accompanied their large 3-foot model in the 60s. Now, thanks to on-line sources, I own a nice 14" x 17" full color reproduction of her.

I closer examination the copy (although listed as "good") sounds a little loved . But sounds like the prints are good, and the price was affordable.

 

[Peter Gutterman]

Bill,
The Aberdeen tea clipper Thermopylae is another favorite of mine, primarily due to her lovely green hull. I think Cyril Hume has an excellent highly detailed scale replica of her, which you can find on-line. Her all-white figurehead is of Spartan King Leonidas in military garb, wearing a plumed helm, carrying a round shield on his left arm holding his broadsword extended down in his right hand. McKay's extreme clipper Sovereign of the Seas has a full-sized figure of a merman, holding a conch shell as if he's blowing it. It's my belief that McKay would still install the same naval hoods as on his other clippers. meanwhile, the long fishtail of the merman would occupy most of the space of the cutwater. This particular vessel is another one where modelers have misinterpreted the rear coach house, which is ludicrously small and makes no logical sense. If you read the Boston Daily Atlas description, the rear coach house is similar to that on the Flying Fish. I actually have a photo of her which proves this. When you're ready to start building, I'll be glad to share more details with you.

Plans that I have for Flying Cloud all differ as to her deck furnishings. Two sets include a booby hatch crowded between the capstan and the coach house. They are so close together that it would be virtually impossible to access either. The Bluejacket plans have a cargo hatch in front of the capstan. The booby hatch would render the capstan unusable. All three sets of plans differ on the exact placement of the capstan.
Leaves a little room for interpretation.

 

[Peter Gutterman]

Rich, since you are an artist, could you post a drawing differentiating between and identifying the stem, cutwater and hood?

 

[WilliamM]

The only reason that I could justify any difference in deck layout would be that ships do undergo modifications throughout their lives. Granted, I was a submariner, but I did see submarines that underwent modifications as well.

I was in rehab earlier this year for a hip replacement. They had a completed Scientific model of the Thermopylae that no one on the staff could identify. I was able to identify the ship, the years that the kit was produced. etc. It was actually reasonably well-built, but it did have a few mistakes that I was able to correct. I enjoyed that very much!

Bill

 

[ClipperFan]

Rich, since you are an artist, could you post a drawing differentiating between and identifying the stem, cutwater and hood?

Hi Peter,
Here's my 1850 McKay extreme clipper Stag Hound reconstruction. All three nautical devices are illustrated in pencil. Follow the base of the keel upwards and that becomes the  stem which supports the bowsprit. Just below the bowsprit and above the leaping staghound figurehead is the naval hood. Below that device is the cutwater to which the figurehead is mounted. On actual ships there's a substantial iron bar that pierces the figurehead and mounts into the base of the combined naval hoods to attach it securely. This complex, layered overlapping of nautical structures is what Rob and I have only seen on McKay vessels and we now refer to as the unique McKay bow. It is virtually indestructible.

 

[WilliamM]

Hi Peter,
Here's my 1850 McKay extreme clipper Stag Hound reconstruction. All three nautical devices are illustrated in pencil. Follow the base of the keel upwards and that becomes the  stem which supports the bowsprit. Just below the bowsprit and above the leaping staghound figurehead is the naval hood. Below that device is the cutwater to which the figurehead is mounted. On actual ships there's a substantial iron bar that pierces the figurehead and mounts into the base of the combined naval hoods to attach it securely. This complex, layered overlapping of nautical structures is what Rob and I have only seen on McKay vessels and we now refer to as the unique McKay bow. It is virtually indestructible.

View attachment 457666

It's interesting . . . I have spent the last few days building the old Revell Stag Hound with and for one of my Grandsons. I know that the kit has many problems and it's nice to see you posting drawings. Thanks!

Bill

 

[ClipperFan]

Peter,
Rob found these two examples of other large clipper ships. On left is the Bark Amy Turner which has an elegantly carved prow with a lovely figurehead but nothing like the interlocking devices of a McKay bow. The other large clipper ship has some decorative elements reminiscent of old sailing ships but again nothing at all like the solid structural elements of a McKay bow. If I can locate it again, I have another remarkable picture of the famous American clipper Great Admiral which has a bow exactly the same as the bark shown here.

 

[ClipperFan]

It's interesting . . . I have spent the last few days building the old Revell Stag Hound. I know that the kit has many problems and it's nice to see you posting drawings. Thanks!

Bill

Bill,
I love the gorgeous John Steel artwork on the original release from the 1960s!
Do yourself a favor and immediately loose that silly house that Revell placed where the forecastle would be. Hopefully you didn't install that. It's wildly inaccurate. Here's the link to the actual description of Stag Hound once again by Duncan McLean, Boston Daily Atlas, December 21, 1859.

The New Clipper Ship "Stag Hound".

Of course, it's crazy to try and replicate the details on a model about a foot long.. You could possibly mock up tiny naval hoods and cutwater from the spare plastic around the sails. They're thin and flexible enough to do the trick. Just a thought. The tiny house could be repositioned to mount just in front of her mizzen mast. It's described as a small portico entrance to apartments below.

It's interesting . . . I have spent the last few days building the old Revell Stag Hound with and for one of my Grandsons. I know that the kit has many problems and it's nice to see you posting drawings. Thanks!

Bill

Bill, Your grandson is a lucky kid.
When you're done, I hope you'll share some images of your finished model. As a kid, I loved the old Revell models. Our parents gave us each one for Christmas. I got the Revell Flying Cloud while my older brother Steve was given the Stag Hound. Both box tops had gorgeous cover paintings but I remember wishing mine didn't have all the writing on it. Years later as an adult, I stumbled on the original piece listed for many thousands of dollars. I was finally able to see the impressive work fully.

 

[Peter Gutterman]

Hi Peter,
Here's my 1850 McKay extreme clipper Stag Hound reconstruction. All three nautical devices are illustrated in pencil. Follow the base of the keel upwards and that becomes the  stem which supports the bowsprit. Just below the bowsprit and above the leaping staghound figurehead is the naval hood. Below that device is the cutwater to which the figurehead is mounted. On actual ships there's a substantial iron bar that pierces the figurehead and mounts into the base of the combined naval hoods to attach it securely. This complex, layered overlapping of nautical structures is what Rob and I have only seen on McKay vessels and we now refer to as the unique McKay bow. It is virtually indestructible.

View attachment 457666

Thanks. Perfectly clear.

 

[Peter Gutterman]

It's interesting . . . I have spent the last few days building the old Revell Stag Hound with and for one of my Grandsons. I know that the kit has many problems and it's nice to see you posting drawings. Thanks!

Bill

You're a fortunate grandfather who has a grandchild interested enough in historic sailing ship models to want to bond over one!
I am pleased that your surgery recovery gave you the opportunity to use your nautical knowledge and modeler's experience, I hope the hip has healed well and gives your mobility a new lease on life!

 

[Peter Gutterman]

The only reason that I could justify any difference in deck layout would be that ships do undergo modifications throughout their lives. Granted, I was a submariner, but I did see submarines that underwent modifications as well.

I was in rehab earlier this year for a hip replacement. They had a completed Scientific model of the Thermopylae that no one on the staff could identify. I was able to identify the ship, the years that the kit was produced. etc. It was actually reasonably well-built, but it did have a few mistakes that I was able to correct. I enjoyed that very much!

Bill

As I'm sure any modeler interested in the Constitution will tell you, the dilemma of depicting her accurately differs by what year or even what month of any given year of her long career.

 

[ClipperFan]

It's interesting . . . I have spent the last few days building the old Revell Stag Hound. I know that the kit has many problems and it's nice to see you posting drawings. Thanks!

Bill

Bill,
I love the gorgeous John Steel artwork on the original release from the 1960s!
Do yourself a favor and immediately lose that silly house that Revell placed where the forecastle would be. Hopefully you didn't install that. It's wildly inaccurate. Here's the link to the actual description of Stag Hound once again by Duncan McLean, Boston Daily Atlas, December 21, 1859.

The New Clipper Ship "Stag Hound".

Of course, it's crazy to try and replicate the details on a model about a foot long..

I went on an Ebay binge and bought The Scientific kits you mentioned and a few others (With the intention that when my wife and are forced to face the inevitable downsizing and probably assisted living) that I'll have a stash of models that won't take up an entire basement workshop to work on.
I had a customer that had a VERY large clipper model (at least 50" on deck) that needed a complete overhaul. I got carte blanche to not only restore but embellish. Took about six years. The model was a dead ringer for the Wild Pigeon in Chappelle's book. The guy has it in his office in the enormous custom mahogany and plexiglass case that my cabinet maker and I fabricated for it. He has a printing company, so he copied out the Wild Pigeon plan, blew it up, changed the name on it to his ship, the "Delia F. Baker"View attachment 457657 and mounted it on the wall behind the model in his office.
The guy comes from an old new England sailing family with a lot of astonishing history.
Life has, indeed been good!

 

[ClipperFan]

Peter,
Thanks for sharing that spectacular clipper ship model based on Chappelle's plans for the Wild Pigeon. She really is quite a centerpiece! I looked her up on Lars Bruzelius's site and found this detailed write up by Duncan McLean:

The New Clipper Ship "Wild Pigeon", of New York.

While she was flagged for New York, she actually was built in New Hampshire on a design of George Raynes. I'm constantly amazed at the very specific details given in these articles. A talented modeler can construct a very accurate vessel just by following the minutia in these articles.

 

[ClipperFan]

Plans that I have for Flying Cloud all differ as to her deck furnishings. Two sets include a booby hatch crowded between the capstan and the coach house. They are so close together that it would be virtually impossible to access either. The Bluejacket plans have a cargo hatch in front of the capstan. The booby hatch would render the capstan unusable. All three sets of plans differ on the exact placement of the capstan.
Leaves a little room for interpretation.

Peter,
Deck fittings on clipper ships may be in tight confines but they have to be able to function. Remember, at the time of her launch Flying Cloud was the largest merchant vessel in the world, like Stag Hound before her. I suspect model designers of the time simply guessed as to the placement of particular deck fittings without considering if it made any logical sense. One advantage Rob and Vlad had with their Glory of the Seas builds, was that Michael Mjelde had already carefully reconstructed her entire deck fittings in great detail. Personally, I've always suspected the rear house is much too large. According to the description, it's a small portico entrance to the lower apartments. If doorways were on the side, then a companionway would fit without a problem.