"Flying Cloud " by Mamoli - kit bash

Peter,
Yes, exactly. It's just a short distance too, so it shouldn't be that difficult to do. If you look at the  Glory photo, you'll see the ornate upper double molding that marks the upper edge of Glory's naval hood blends in neatly with the planksheer molding.
 
ClipperFan said:
Peter,
Yes, exactly. It's just a short distance too, so it shouldn't be that difficult to do. If you look at the  Glory photo, you'll see the ornate upper double molding that marks the upper edge of Glory's naval hood blends in neatly with the planksheer molding.
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I'll try it tomorrow and send pictures. The trick is extending the line so that it blends seamlessly with the curve of the line leading into it without breaking that curve. Easier on one side of the ship than the other as they are not perfectly symmetrical mirror images, and the line has to work in three dimensions. I've also done a little tweaking since the last images. We're creeping up on it! Nice collaborative effort, which appears to be your specialty. Thumbsup
Thanks for the input on the figureheads, Bill.
I've ordered some fine line gold pens, which may make acanthus leaf ornamentation doable.
 
ClipperFan said:
@WilliamM Bill, Mystic Seaport used to have a fascinating world class art Gallery which is now unfortunately closed. The original curator who began this gallery is a great guy named J Russell Jinishian. I met him once a few years ago at his new Maritime Art Gallery in Stonington, just a short distance beyond Mystic.
You're right about many figureheads being painted to appear natural but there are multiple illustrations of the clipper which appear to show her angel figurehead was white. Donald McKay liked to embellish with gold leaf, (according to Duncan McLean's description of McKay's Inaugural clipper Stag Hound her leaping dog figurehead was embellished in pure gold leaf. So it's quite likely his Flying Cloud figurehead while being mainly white was highlighted with some gold leaf trim.
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It is difficult at best to distinguish color in the Glory of the Seas black and white photo above. Is the apparent white simply a light-colored depiction of skin? I see white in the robes, yet the face appears darker with the hair darker still. It is hard to tell. Oh well. It is an interesting discussion . . . Beer

Bill
 
WilliamM said:
It is difficult at best to distinguish color in the Glory of the Seas black and white photo above. Is the apparent white simply a light-colored depiction of skin? I see white in the robes, yet the face appears darker with the hair darker still. It is hard to tell. Oh well. It is an interesting discussion . . . Beer

Bill
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Athena's hair, eyes and eyebrows are painted, and the edges of the clothing apparently gilded. Skin color? who knows?
I'm going to leave the angel as is. I like the antique white wash over the boxwood. Anything more would be gilding the lily. (Maybe some discreet gilt edging.)
 
Peter Gutterman said:
Athena's hair, eyes and eyebrows are painted, and the edges of the clothing apparently gilded. Skin color? who knows?
I'm going to leave the angel as is. I like the antique white wash over the boxwood. Anything more would be gilding the lily. (Maybe some discreet gilt edging.)
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Peter,
By 1913 when Muir took this photo, Glory of the Seas was no longer even a sailing ship. Sadly, she was effectively a floating hulk, only her lower yards remained, her t'gallant masts were all removed and she was in process of being converted to a floating salmon packing factory. Bored factory workers apparently were given free access to paint her figurehead as they pleased. Here's images of her as originally launched. Her classic Grecian goddess Athene figurehead is pure white. Her naval hoods and cutwater are embellished with impressive gold leaf carvings. You can also see how the base of the hood ends just above the anchor hawse hole, as I've been describing. Not visible from the great distance this famous picture taken by JM Black of Glory of the Seas on the ways, shortly before her launch are the figureheads additional details. She wears carved arm bracelets, a sea shell beaded headpiece, an ornate necklace with double lined trim on the bottom of her toga. Knowing McKay's penchant for gold leaf trim, I believe these elements would have had golden highlights.

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Thanks for posting these. Maybe by now you've gotten the latest iteration.
I tried adding to the cutwater and mounting the figurehead farther forward under the bowsprit, more like the "Glory" configuration. Looked out of proportion for my model, so I didn't bother to post it. I'm waiting for some fine line gold pens, scheduled to arrive today. So, if they are fine enough and easy to control, I may try mocking up some decorative elements. (Paint and brush are out of the question for me at this scale. Too hard to control.) McKay used both laurel (?) (on the upper hood) and acanthus (or floral, on the lower) on the "Glory". The prints and paintings you posted seem to favor the stylized acanthus leaf motif, which I prefer. The laurel looks too "twiggy" for my tastes. The prints and paintings seem to place the decoration on the upper hood on the Flying Cloud, which I would prefer so as not to over burden the Lily with the gilding. (not that the Victorian era decorators would have felt so constrainedROTF).
If the prints and paintings are reliable ( :rolleyes: ) guide, then the ship must have had the decoration at some time.
 
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Peter,
That's lovely. I'd say you're 90% there. I just answered your observations about Athene being painted naturally. By now you should see an extreme close up of Glory's bow with goldleaf embellished carvings on her naval hoods and cutwater below. Hoods are decorated with interweaving flowing ribbons while cutwater below has ailcanthus leaves and flowers. Such complex details are obviously way too complicated on small scale models. However, you can replicate the upper hood end by extending the topmost gold line to just above the anchor hawse hole, like you've done with the lower one (great job by the way). Then, when it's combined with an extended uppermost line this will complete the impression of the full naval hoods. I suggest you can then black out the top line of the cutwater as it's not needed. Finally, the lowest cutwater gold line could be blacked out and repainted parallel to the lower naval hood line, just below the base of your angel figurehead, since she's supposed to be resting on it. If you feel adventurous you could practice doing so simple loops inside the naval hoods to indicate some gold carvings. Nothing should go beyond the end of the hawse hole though. Before attempting on your model, I would practice on some paper first. Just to let you know, your Flying Cloud really looks well improved already!
 
Peter Gutterman said:
Thanks for posting these. Maybe by now you've gotten the latest iteration.
I tried adding to the cutwater and mounting the figurehead farther forward under the bowsprit, more like the "Glory" configuration. Looked out of proportion for my model, so I didn't bother to post it. I'm waiting for some fine line gold pens, scheduled to arrive today. So, if they are fine enough and easy to control, I may try mocking up some decorative elements. (Paint and brush are out of the question for me at this scale. Too hard to control.) McKay used both laurel (?) (on the upper hood) and acanthus (or floral, on the lower) on the "Glory". The prints and paintings you posted seem to favor the stylized acanthus leaf motif, which I prefer. The laurel looks too "twiggy" for my tastes. The prints and paintings seem to place the decoration on the upper hood on the Flying Cloud, which I would prefer so as not to over burden the Lily with the gilding. (not that the Victorian era decorators would have felt so constrainedROTF).
If the prints and paintings are reliable ( :rolleyes: ) guide, then the ship must have had the decoration at some time.
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Peter
With fine point gold pens you should be able to do some nice decorative work inside your hoods. I suspect the reason for using laurel or interweaving ribbons on Glory of the Seas was due to the tight interior confines of their configuration. Cutwaters offered a relatively wider consistent area to insert carvings into them. I'll be looking forward to seeing your resullts!
 
Agreed concerning the tight confines for decoration. However, I much prefer what i see in the artist's renderings. I'll see what I can do. I agree as well concerning design and practice off the model. It would be nice to come up with something special, well executed and aesthetically pleasing!:D
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Perer,
Eliminating that upper cutwater gold line has made your model's bow even more elegant. Extending the uppermost gold line just beyond the anchor chain hawse hole will make her naval hoods look larger and longer. See how the figurehead looks slightly smaller? Once those hoods are done, she will appear to be even smaller. I suspect after after you add fine gold filigree, that effect will reduce the angel's size even more, restoring balance to your model's hull.
 
Provided I get the pens, they're sufficiently fine line, the gold covers the black and I can pull it off :rolleyes: .
Thanks for all the patient input. You've made a material contribution to the overall look and success of my model!

Pete
 
Peter, thank you for your compliment. You have the fortune (or misfortune) of getting my attention. Mainly it's because my fascination with clipper ships might border on fanaticism. That goes double for American clippers and double that for ships built by my favorite Donald McKay. It's never my intent to badger but more to give input to be of assistance to modelers replicating these beautiful vessels.
Peter Gutterman said:
Provided I get the pens, they're sufficiently fine line, the gold covers the black and I can pull it off :rolleyes: .
Thanks for all the patient input. You've made a material contribution to the overall look and success of my model!

Pete
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ClipperFan said:
Peter, thank you for your compliment. You have the fortune (or misfortune) of getting my attention. Mainly it's because my fascination with clipper ships might border on fanaticism. That goes double for American clippers and double that for ships built by my favorite Donald McKay. It's never my intent to badger but more to give input to be of assistance to modelers replicating these beautiful vessels.
ClipperFan said:
Peter, thank you for your compliment. You have the fortune (or misfortune) of getting my attention. Mainly it's because my fascination with clipper ships might border on fanaticism. That goes double for American clippers and double that for ships built by my favorite Donald McKay. It's never my intent to badger but more to give input to be of assistance to modelers replicating these beautiful vessels.
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Glad to be the beneficiary of your obsession! I'm currently mulling over ways to make the ornamentation...maybe Sculpy appliques...;)
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Peter,
Since you mentioned possibly using sculpey, it reminded me of some amazing vessels decorated with sculpey. Doris makes incredible cardboard, highly ornate model sailing ships. Her 100 gun warship Sovereign of the Seas is remarkable. She just finished a 4 year build of the HMS Royal Katherine her biggest model to date. Besides that, her other build is a stunning yacht Royal Caroline. She uses sculpey clay to model her detailed lifelike figures, including sculptures on her vessels as well as all crew manning them. You can find her work on Model Ship World. She gives step by step explanations as to how she produces her wonderous figures. It might benefit you to take a look at her work.
 
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