"Flying Cloud " by Mamoli - kit bash

Sorry, but I suggest that this otherwise beautiful painting is too heavy on the romance! I can’t imagine even a hard driving master sailing a ship in this kind of sea with all sails including studding sails flying. Once a ship reached hull speed, about 1.35 times the square root of waterline length adding sail area was pointless and dangerous . I believe that studding sails were used primarily to add sail area to get the ship through the doldrums. These Clipper ship speed records are based on two types of records; daily runs, and port to port days logged. In the first case this would have been in favorable strong winds but the second would have encompassed all kinds of weather. Saving a day or two getting through the doldrums was better than risking loss of gear in strong winds. These hard driving skippers were first and foremost professionals. Carrying away gear did not result in quick voyages.

Roger
 
Roger.... agree. Stunsails were adapted for extremely light breezes......to gather the ever slight puff of wind. But the sea this vessel is racing in is not stunsail stuff....CautiousCautious

So much stress is exhibited on the masting and rigging it would be a fools errand to keep these light wind sails aloft. My guess, is that even the skysails would be shorted to prevent dismasting in the weather depicted.
Records were the goal...and losing gear would not help that...though some records were made with ships partly dismasted.

I think this painting of Staghound portrays the proper sail outfitting for that kind of weather. Similar seas, but different sail plan. Not that we are trying to side step this log.;)

1729789368445.png
 
Peter,
This is a sharper image of an 1851 handtinted color woodcut showing Flying Cloud loading at a New York wharf in preparation for her record breaking 89 day inaugural NY to San Francisco voyage. Her massive hull dwarfs horse drawn wagons and crew loading her. It's possible to zoom in on these scenes to see details closer. Her bow clearly shows a white winged angel who's holding a trumpet in her right hand. Behind her are gilded carvings, very similar to navel hoods and cutwater seen in contemporary bow photos on Glory of the Seas.







81yLRFkVaIL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_FMwebp_.webp

20241024_110524.jpg

20241024_110121.jpg

20241024_110340.jpg
 
Roger Pellett said:
Sorry, but I suggest that this otherwise beautiful painting is too heavy on the romance! I can’t imagine even a hard driving master sailing a ship in this kind of sea with all sails including studding sails flying. Once a ship reached hull speed, about 1.35 times the square root of waterline length adding sail area was pointless and dangerous . I believe that studding sails were used primarily to add sail area to get the ship through the doldrums. These Clipper ship speed records are based on two types of records; daily runs, and port to port days logged. In the first case this would have been in favorable strong winds but the second would have encompassed all kinds of weather. Saving a day or two getting through the doldrums was better than risking loss of gear in strong winds. These hard driving skippers were first and foremost professionals. Carrying away gear did not result in quick voyages.

Roger
Click to expand...
Roger,
Agreed, Jack Spurling stretched limits of credulity with this piece. I still find the portrayal dramatic and stirring, realizing that such overkill of sails never happened.
A more realistic Flying Cloud portrayal is this 1978 piece by "Cap'n Jim" which his website states was taken directly from the log of her inaugural record-breaking journey from New York to San Francisco. Situations like this substantial dismasting make the phenomenal accomplishment of her captain, crew and his wife as navigator even more impressive. Instead of docking at Valparaiso for repairs, they managed to remount practically all of these damaged spars and continue uninterrupted on their racing journey.

Flying_Cloud-dismasted-captjim.jpg

FLYING_CLOUD-e.jpg
 
Peter,
Another ultra rare depiction of the McKay extreme clipper Flying Cloud is this beautiful leeward view from the Chinese School of art. This ca 1870 oil Ship 'Flying Cloud' of New York 'Alex Winsor, Cmr' Entering Hong Kong comes from Grogan & Company June 5th, 2016, Boston, Mass. Auction which sold for $5,000.00. Her close-up bow clearly shows her winged angel figurehead bearing a trumpet in her right hand with her left arm down by her side and carved navel hood behind her. Note how her graceful cutwater differs greatly from the ordinary bare stem of current commercially produced models. By this time, her original gilding is gone, replaced by pure black paint but her prow remains original 19 years later.

20241024_200911.jpg

20241024_200715.jpg

20241024_202040.jpg

20241024_202235.jpg
 
Last edited:
Peter Gutterman said:
Yup. She sailed into San Francisco on her record voyage, and off to China with a jury-rigged mainmast!
Thanks for posting all the great pictures and equally great commentaries!
Click to expand...
You're welcome. I was stunned to read how seriously Flying Cloud had her masts damaged in her record-setting voyage. Even with her mainmast sprung at the hounds, she still sailed at times faster than her log could read. Captain and crew, including his brilliant self-taught navigator wife definitely earned the nickname "iron men & woman in wooden ships!" I also wonder, what would their potential time have been, had they not been compelled to limp along during parts of their journey?
 
Roger Pellett said:
That print of Flying Cloud with the “topsail sign” would be a great way to display the model.

Roger
Click to expand...
Roger,
Even better would be a small dockside diorama with miniature horses and wagons as depicted in the litho. That would really drive-home how large Flying Cloud really was. For a short time, until Webbs mammouth Challenge eclipsed her, she was, like Stag Hound before her, the largest merchant vessel in the world.
 
ClipperFan said:
side and carved navel hood behind her. Note how her graceful cutwater differs greatly from the ordinary bare stem of current commercially produced models. By this time, her original gilding is gone, replaced by pure black paint but her prow remains original 19 years later.
Click to expand...
This is a rare find for sure. This artist captures her hood very closely. Not exact, but very close. Far more accurate than many other world renound artists.
The howes hole is placed within the aft section of the hood....similar to cheek plates. I'm sure that detail might be off....but no matter.

She surely exhibits the sharp cutwater that Glory of the Seas produced. Great painting that validates the McKay naval hood.

Rob
 
rwiederrich said:
This is a rare find for sure. This artist captures her hood very closely. Not exact, but very close. Far more accurate than many other world renound artists.
The howes hole is placed within the aft section of the hood....similar to cheek plates. I'm sure that detail might be off....but no matter.

She surely exhibits the sharp cutwater that Glory of the Seas produced. Great painting that validates the McKay naval hood.

Rob
Click to expand...
Rob,
Isn't it amazing how the earliest contemporary illustrations confirm the accuracy of McLean's exact descriptions?
 
Last edited:
A couple more images of 1851 extreme California Clipper Flying Cloud. First is an authentic hand-tinted 1852 Currier lithograph, probably the most famous depiction of her, listed on ebay for $1,059 by a German antique art auction firm. Second is a beautiful oil by Aviation artist Robert Taylor depicting her entering Hong Kong on her way to load tea in Foochow. This limited edition print is listed for $265 on Brooks Aviation Art.
Both again match very closely the Boston Daily Atlas description. Such accurate artistic portrayals refute carelessness of commercially produced plans. All of which sadly have totally ignore the true ingenuity and elegant class of the unique McKay prow.

20241025_180144.jpg

20241025_190832.jpg

20241025_190937.jpg
 
Last edited:
rwiederrich said:
Yeah….. and it seams everybody in the model kit world has missed it. Even the masters who scratch built their models missed it.

Rob
Click to expand...
Rob,
What really shocks me is how McLean's very clear descriptions have been so thoroughly missed. Especially in the case of Flying Cloud as far as the significance of navel hoods and cutwater integration was concerned, Duncan (a sailor himself) actually went out of his way to emphasize the durability of this unique construct. However, now that this for centuries hidden unique bow is finally being rediscovered, I feel courageous modelers like our buddy Peter are establishing a new, more authentic direction for McKay's clippers!
 
rwiederrich said:
Fantastic paintings Rich. Just wonderful Both sho her guilded Naval hood very well.

Shame on model plan designers.

Rob
Click to expand...
Rob,
Just the Currier print alone refutes the bare plain stem that every single Flying Cloud model has been saddled with. Yet, from the earliest lithograph of her launch, the unique McKay navel hood, cutwater and figurehead nestled between has been accurately depicted. I feel that commercial model makers were sadly just lazy in their approach. Now, we're turning the page and finally revealing McKay's true brilliance. And now our further evaluation of Stag Hound is discovering even more features about McKay forecastle crew accommodations. It is exciting to reveal the authentic appearance of these majestic vessels.
 
I am currently reading and am enjoying the book about Ellen Creesy navigating Flying Cloud on her record breaking voyage. The ship is currently sailing south of New York. While the author claims that everything is backed up by research (except for dialog and that’s reconstructed from what was probably said) I have some doubts. Leaving New York Harbor, the crew man’s the windlass. With the patient windlass geared to the capstan I believe that they would have used it instead. He also has the stunsails set on a close reach. I’ll do some more research but I don’t that they would be very effective at this point of sail.

The fact that Flying Cloud was able to still sail at high speed after losing a good part of her rig demonstrates the speed length ratio that I discussed earlier. This is Speed (in knots) divided by Square Root of Waterline Lengrh (in feet), Chapelle lists several speed lengths calculated from recorded information:
Sovereign of the Seas. 1.45
James Baines. 1.45
Lightning. 1.25
Sweepstakes. 1.13
This hydrodynamic principle casts doubt on the wisdom masters of Clipper ship masters continuing to carry full sail in high winds. Once the ship reached her hull speed, adding or not reducing sail in increasing winds. All this did was increase the ship’s wave train. In some conditions this could even cause the ship to broach and capsize.

By the way, the highest known speed length ratio during the Clipper era, 1.65 was achieved by the topsail schooner Clipper City. She was a shallow draft centerboard schooner that hauled lumber, on Lake Michigan. Her designer, William Bates was an associate of East Coast Clipper Ship designer William Griffiths.

Roger,
 
Great book. "Flying Cloud and the Woman Who Guided her" I just recently finished reading it myself. And yes, while far from having Roger's expertise, technical knowledge and experience, I did detect the voice of the artist overriding that of the historian in this altogether wonderful novel and breathtaking portrayal of the era, voyage, ship and characters involved. I would love to have a copy of the log myself to scour for historic details.

Pete
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top