HIGH HOPES, WILD MEN AND THE DEVIL’S JAW - Willem Barentsz Kolderstok 1:50

Hallo Heinrich, ik was een paar weken niet op het forum geweest wegens wat lichamelijke ongemakken. Inmiddels ben ik weer bij gelezen en ben ik onder de indruk van je uitgebreide verslag. Vele toekomstige bouwers van dit scheepje kunnen hier zeker hun voordeel mee doen. Ik vind het ook fantastisch dat je mijn model als bron voor je inspiratie gebruikt en ben daarom stiekem een beetje trots. Dank voor de vele complimenten die ik regelmatig voorbij zie komen in je verslag.

Met vriendelijke groet Piet.
 
Good morning Heinrich. Another thesis on Dutch ship building, this time lifeboats. Excellent. I’m with Hans on reducing the size and thickness of the belay rack. Re your rear canopy closure, I know Piet is an exceptional modeler, however I do prefer the more rounded closure you achieved. Great work with your WB and thanks for the “thesis”. Cheers Grant
Hi Grant! What do you mean thesis? I haven't started yet! ROTF The thesis comes tonight! The belay rack has already been reduced in thickness, so I fully agree with you on that one. Now I need to see if the foremast clears the belay rack - otherwise that may be a problem. I have tried the whole day to drill 6 holes for the belaying pins in a straight line. Do you think I can manage - all attempts look like bollocks! Ah well, I guess it's just one of those days! :(
 
Hallo Heinrich, ik was een paar weken niet op het forum geweest wegens wat lichamelijke ongemakken. Inmiddels ben ik weer bij gelezen en ben ik onder de indruk van je uitgebreide verslag. Vele toekomstige bouwers van dit scheepje kunnen hier zeker hun voordeel mee doen. Ik vind het ook fantastisch dat je mijn model als bron voor je inspiratie gebruikt en ben daarom stiekem een beetje trots. Dank voor de vele complimenten die ik regelmatig voorbij zie komen in je verslag.

Met vriendelijke groet Piet.
Just for our non-Dutch forum members, Piet's message in English.

Hi Heinrich, I have not been on the forum for a few weeks due to some physical discomfort. In the meantime, I have been reading up again and I am impressed by your extensive report. Many future builders of this ship can certainly benefit from this. I also think it's fantastic that you use my model as your source of inspiration and am therefore secretly a bit proud. Thank you for the many compliments that I regularly see in your report.

Beste Piet. vele dank vir de mooi woorde. Ik ben bewus van de pols en rug wat dinge weer moeilijk vit jouw maakt! Dit is erg vervelend. Ik hoop dat jij gouw beter voel en weer aan't slag kan gaat met de bomschip Candelaria. Jouw Willem Barentsz hebt de lat hoog geplaast, maar dis altijd goed om zo een voorbeeld ten doel te stel.

Dear Piet. Thank you for the kind words. I am aware that your wrist and back have been playing up again and are making things difficult for you. I trust that things will quickly improve and that you will soon be able to continue with the Candelaria. Your Willem Barentsz has set the bar very high, but it is always good to have such an example to follow.
 
Hi Grant! What do you mean thesis? I haven't started yet! ROTF The thesis comes tonight! The belay rack has already been reduced in thickness, so I fully agree with you on that one. Now I need to see if the foremast clears the belay rack - otherwise that may be a problem. I have tried the whole day to drill 6 holes for the belaying pins in a straight line. Do you think I can manage - all attempts look like bollocks! Ah well, I guess it's just one of those days! :(
I foresee an awfull lot of homework coming...
 
Hello Dear Friends

I promised @GrantTyler Grant a thesis and I hope that @RDN1954 Johan has his notebook ready! :D

So let me first show you - in 17th Century context - the difference between the larger and smaller lifeboats.

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The above picture of the Batavia's lifeboat in Australia would be an example of the 'boot' (made for transport of goods and other heavy duties, round bow and stern, flat bottomed with no keel, clinker sides, length equal to the beam of the ship, or 1/4 of its length, with a windlass for bringing out the anchor and the possibility to sail, mostly towed with a rope coming through one of the 'cardinals hats' near the gun ports in the stern.

Here we have the lifeboat of the replica of the Willem Barentsz. At this stage there is only one and it would appear that it matches the description of what Ab would call a chaloup: For transporting people (round stem and stern, flat counter with side boards, carvel bottom, clinker sides, length 4/5 of the 'boot', mostly stored on deck.

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All the above pictures are courtesy of Thomas Wilberg

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So why are the boats so important when we are taking about a winch? Simply because whether they were stored on deck, would have determined the position of the winch on the Willem Barentsz.

On Modelbouwforum , a "discussion" (sometimes more than a discussion :) took place on where to place the windlass as well as the mooring bitt / main bitt / riding bitt (thanks for the terminology, Hans!) and whether or not to place a mooring bitt at all. De Weerdt does make it, but actually it is superfluous in combination with a winch (braadspil). The winch itself can very well act as a mooring bitt on small ships. Ab and Van Yk both definitively mention that there is no need for a mooring bitt on small ships.

De Weerdt sets up his winch a long way behind the mooring bitt. The question then is where the lifeboat/s was/were stored on deck. There is no longer any room for that at De Weerdt. At this stage, Hans was still battling with the question of whether the boat was towed or stored on deck (with the sloop). The sloop certainly had to be able to be stored on deck (for larger ships) while the boat was often towed behind it - that's where the expression "the boat missed" comes from.

If you fell into the water from the ship, you could still grab the boat, climb in there and get back onto the ship. If you also missed the boat that was towed behind the ship, you were doomed, because the ship did not stop. Hence, you missed the boat.

Because it is far from certain what the workplace at the bow looked like, Hans had to rely on the rather different opinions of Hoving and de Weerdt. Hoving places the braadspil all the way to the fokkenmast without using a mooring bitt. De Weerdt puts the winch much further back with an mooring bitt between the mast and the winch. A third option would be to place it in the middle of the De Weerdt and Hoving interpretations).

With the winch at the mast and behind it a belaying-pin rack, (as it is now on the @Kolderstok model) the workspace would become very tight, but if Hans followed De Weerdt there would hardly be room left for storing the sloop and the boat.

While studying the original text of Gerrit de Veer (the author of the description of the trip to Nova Zembla, and also a member of the crew), it is mentioned twice that the schuijt was "set out" - lowered into the water - on 10 June and on 20 July. Those lines are for some reason not included in the contemporary version of the story.

10 juni: “ Den 10. Juny setten wy onsen schuijt uyt ende voeren met ons acht persoonen naer landt…”

20 juli: “Wy setten onse schuijt uyt ende royden met ons achten aen t’land”

10 June: we lowered the sloop and the eight of us rowed to land.

20 July: we lowered the sloop and the eight of us rowed to land.

Further measurements also showed that the space that between the deck and roof of the front canopy is sufficient to be able to hoist the bok and the schuijt out.
When things reached this point, Hans was already convinced that the schuijt was not towed, that was simply not possible because of the ice floes, moreover, travel journals of other sailing trips show that this boat was on the deck because of the risk that they could be lost during storms.

Thus in a nutshell - Hans was convinced that both boats were stored on deck (at least while they were negotiating the ice) and the schuit had to be partially stored underneath the front canopy.

My deduction is that with the schuyt stored onboard and half way underneath the canopy, it would have made it impossible for the winch to have been there as well. That is why I have no problem to follow Hans's layout - except that it is not easy to do!
 
To verify the above for myself, I built the framework of the larger of the two lifeboats and just placed it on deck.

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You can see just how far the larger lifeboat goes underneath the front canopy. Also bear in mind that the cooking was done there - so I cannot imagine that it is the correct place for the winch - apologies Mr De Weerdt.
 
Heinrich, once again a fantastic interpretation of history relating to the WB. It would seem that the "schuyt" rigged for off loading would make a great addition to the model. "Just saying" :D
 
Heinrich, once again a fantastic interpretation of history relating to the WB. It would seem that the "schuyt" rigged for off loading would make a great addition to the model. "Just saying" :D
Jan, that would certainly alleviate a lot of the space problem on deck. Should I wish to include both boats, it is going to be awfully busy on that deck. :) Your suggestion is certainly one to consider. Thank you!
 
About the boat (bok - schuit or chaloup) I found this image:
Boot - uit Sinnepoppen.jpeg
The text above the picture (Sit oneri erit usui) means in Dutch het moge tot last zijn, het zal van nut zijn.
translated: It may be a burden, but it will be of use.

In the book Sinnepoppen (1614) there is a small piece of original text:
ALS een Schip in de Zee gaet, soo setmen het Boot in het groote Schip, het welck aldaer een groote ruymte neemt, ende de Bootsghesellen seer in de weech is; dan moet nochtans mee varen, niet teghenstaende alle ongherijf ende onghemack datmer af lijdt om datmen daer mede noodigh moet aen het landt gaen

Translated:
If a ship goes onto the sea, the boat is put into the big ship, which takes a big space there, and it stands in the way for the boatmen; then they should still go along, not withstanding all the inconvenience and discomfort that they suffer because they have to go to land with it.

So despite all the space it took, it was very important to have one or more boats on a ship - it could be the difference between life and dead.

Hans
 
I have difficulty keeping up with all the various models that have been built of this ship but in this particular one:
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the hawse would appear to enter the gun deck. In which case we could simply say, "the windlass is on the gun deck" and be done with it.! And while at it we could say, "the usual boat would not fit on deck so a smaller one was used". Once again problem solved!:)

Fair winds.. Ed
 
Thank you very much Hans. This is most interesting and lovely old Dutch as well. This opens up another option of how the schuit can be carried - almost like on the whaling Fluyts.
 
the hawse would appear to enter the gun deck. In which case we could simply say, "the windlass is on the gun deck"
:) Sounds easy - but of course it is not that easy. The anchor was not hoisted with the thick anchor cable - coming out of the hawse.
There was a separate block system for hoisting the anchor - which started (very often) much higher - at the foretop.
 
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I have difficulty keeping up with all the various models that have been built of this ship but in this particular one:
View attachment 300718
the hawse would appear to enter the gun deck. In which case we could simply say, "the windlass is on the gun deck" and be done with it.! And while at it we could say, "the usual boat would not fit on deck so a smaller one was used". Once again problem solved!:)

Fair winds.. Ed
Hi Ed. The model that you are showing is that by Piet Sanders - his build is the one that I am strictly following - so my configuration will appear the same. And in this case, there were two boats - a big one and a small one. So while the small one does not pose much of a problem, the larger one probably dictated the position of the windlass.
 
:) Sound easy - but of course it is not that easy. The anchor was not hoisted with the thick anchor cable - coming out of the hawse.
There was a separate block system for hoisting the anchor - which started (very often) much higher - at the foretop.
Thank you for highlighting this Hans. This is another example of things are not always what they seem and another fascinating example of how the Dutch did things their own way.
 
So if the windlass wasn't needed to raise the anchor why not just delete it.?
The windlass was for sure needed to raise the anchor - but it wasn't done via the thick anchor cable.
In fact the windlass was used for every hoisting action on the ship - lifting the yards - bring the boats out and in - hoist cargo out of the ship - etc. etc.
 
When I designed this model kit there was quite some discussion on the place of the windlass. Should it be in front of the canopy, or at the back of the canopy?
No one knows for sure - but given the space available at the middle deck to stow the boats it seemed more obvious to me to place the windlass at the front.
Btw - what Heinrich is building is my version of the ship :)
 
@Sailor_ed Hi Ed - see post #1857

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Photograph: Piet Sanders (@pietsan )

If you look at the above picture of Piet Sanders’s build you will see that on the Kolderstok version of the Willem Barentsz, the anchor windlass and rack for the belaying pins are mounted IN FRONT of the front canopy, just behind the foremast.
 
Hi, Heinrich
This windlass sure seems to be a problem and I have to admit that if it was placed back under the canopy you would not have rooms for the boats but it would be the sensible position for working the winch in combination with the fore bits, although the cable coming in via the hawser to the lower deck throws a bit of a spanner in the works. Stuck between the fore mast and the canopy there does not look like a lot of room to lever those long handspikes. I built the Halve Maen 1608 a while back and she had her capstan placed abaft the main mast if space permitted. I know you are building the Kolderstok version but with a windlass back there you could work the ship better and it would even aid lifting the boats over. Just a thought Sir. Great log you got going.
 
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