HIGH HOPES, WILD MEN AND THE DEVIL’S JAW - Willem Barentsz Kolderstok 1:50

Loving your work Heinrich, whatever happens the ship is going to be beautiful.
Regarding the current bow configuration, coming from someone with no credentials whatsoever it's seems very cramped to be practical, it would have made access to the lines on the belaying pins very difficult but I am not sure what the alternative is.
 
rtibbs said:
Adding to what Jan said do you have one or two scale figures that could be placed to give some “scale” reference.
It looks very cozy around there and I’m not sure if there is room to manipulate the windlass

Just my two cents worth

Ron
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Unfortunately I do not have any scale figures Ron. Cozy it certainly is, but after just reading Ab Hoving's reply, he has also interpreted the windlass to be in front of the front canopy - so I am happy with the position.
 
RDN1954 said:
As I've come to expect of you; outstanding modeling!
Still, while I appreciate the fact that the two lifeboats are to be stored on deck, the windlass and the belaying rack are located in front of the fwd canopy and that there's a crowd underneath said canopy during the day, I'm convinced this given configuration is a nightmare to work with in real life,
Consider simultaneously maneuvering the large life boat from underneath the canopy and hoisting it, without causing too much damage... Another thing is the operation of the windlass, hardly any room there to do one's job. If the proposed configuration is correct, and I have little reason to believe otherwise, my appreciation of those old Dutch sailors sure went up a couple of notches.

PS Thanks for your thorough explanation on these configuration issues, I've come to truly enjoy them!
Click to expand...
Johan for sure it must have been a nightmare. That is why I am so glad that Ab has replied to me. He has placed his windlass directly behind the stempost, so even though his position is slightly different than the Kolderstok version, it does mean that he has also interpreted the windlass to be in front of the front canopy and not halfway underneath it. Hence, you are fully justified in your admiration for those Dutch sailors. They need to be saluted.
 
Richie said:
Loving your work Heinrich, whatever happens the ship is going to be beautiful.
Regarding the current bow configuration, coming from someone with no credentials whatsoever it's seems very cramped to be practical, it would have made access to the lines on the belaying pins very difficult but I am not sure what the alternative is.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much Richie. Despite all the drawbacks of the position of the windlass in front of the canopy, the alternatives present even greater problems. Ab Hoving also placed his in front of the front canopy, so I can't be too wrong! :)
 
Canoe21 said:
Hello Heinrich, Catching up on your build again, great job you have did on your windless, just love that nice color.
Regards Lawrence
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Hello Lawrence. I am glad that you and the little fellows could take a quick break from the Bluenose to visit! Thank you my friend - the shellac does give things quite a "warm" glow.
 
Ab Hoving said:
Hello Heinrich,
You asked my opinion, from the hip and straight, which I think indicates that you usually find my comments less than diplomatic. You are right. I do have some talents (like losing and forgetting important things, respectively my wedding ring and my wife's birthday) but indeed diplomacy is regrettably not my major quality.
As for the windlass on Barentsz's ship: there is something unusual here. There are not many details of the ship elaborated in De Veer's journal, but as a historical exception this part is actually mentioned. In the early days of the wintering on Novaja Zemlya some of the crew went from the newly built cabin to the ship to gather some left over supplies. They appeared not to be completely on their own. A big polar bear was already aboard and the men did not know any better than... 'hiding behind the windlass'.
Now this really is some sort of a clue for how that windlass must have been positioned aboard the ship. In my reconstruction I placed it right behind the stem post, Gerald opted for the -behind the forecastle- option.
I don't know which one is more probable.
I think your version is not really up to hauling up an anchor, and it seems hard to me to get the crew to do that without a capstan or a windlass.
Sorry, you will have to make your own decision. I wasn't there. Perhaps anyone else here has a good idea?

Ab
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Thank you very much for this Ab. This is exactly the kind of input that I need. So let me see if I understand you correctly? In other words, you placed the winch between the stempost and the foremast?

Ab.png

I realize full well that we do not have a definitive answer and are merely hypothesizing, but at least now I know that you also placed the winch in front of the front canopy and not underneath it or where Gerald placed it.
 
Sorry Heinrich, I looked in my small archive for pictures taken of the building process, but found just one.
barents 1.jpg
As far as I can see my foremast is closer to the stem, the windlass is behind the mast, which makes it all a bit more spacious. The cover is placed a little bit more backwards.
Well, it's a matter of improvising.
barents.jpg
 
Hi Heinrich. Great progress on the build sofar.
In respect to the windlass I would place it behind the fore castle, identical like on a fluyt.
With the windlass before the fore castle you are not able to place the poles for operating the windlass as these will hit the fore castle deck.
Secondly you need space around the windlass to operate it with some 4 man. Just behind the fore castle you have this space. Guess the people in the 16th century were also thinking practicle :-)

See below a picture of a Dutch fluyt of 1636 in the Gulf of Finland. Hereyou see the windlass just behing the fore castle deck.
730_Cptrs-3878.jpg
 
I find this discussion on the configuration of the WB/WS absolutely fascinating. Trying to use common sense, having a thorough historical background or having building experience with a variety of ships, it's all here. Although a large amount of historical data is available and a lot of research has been done in this little not so little project, many assumptions have been made, as well as best educated guesses, in this build, but also reflected in other builds, as refered to by Heinrichin his various posts.
I think whatever decision is made, based on all the available information and freely given advice, it can hardly be disputed, since we basically don't know...
Having said that; kudos to the historians, the kit developer ánd the daring builders.Thumbs-Up

PS Whoever feels left out; my apologies!
 
Ab Hoving said:
Sorry Heinrich, I looked in my small archive for pictures taken of the building process, but found just one.
View attachment 301001
As far as I can see my foremast is closer to the stem, the windlass is behind the mast, which makes it all a bit more spacious. The cover is placed a little bit more backwards.
Well, it's a matter of improvising.
View attachment 301002
Click to expand...
Thank you so much Ab! You have made my day as that is exactly where @Kolderstok Hans has placed it on the model. Now I know that I can go ahead and not worry about this anymore! :)
 
Maarten said:
Hi Heinrich. Great progress on the build sofar.
In respect to the windlass I would place it behind the fore castle, identical like on a fluyt.
With the windlass before the fore castle you are not able to place the poles for operating the windlass as these will hit the fore castle deck.
Secondly you need space around the windlass to operate it with some 4 man. Just behind the fore castle you have this space. Guess the people in the 16th century were also thinking practicle :)

See below a picture of a Dutch fluyt of 1636 in the Gulf of Finland. Hereyou see the windlass just behing the fore castle deck.
View attachment 301003
Click to expand...
Maarten that would be the most logical place to place it (in fact at one stage @Kolderstok Hans was about to put it there ... BUT ... then there is no place on deck for the lifeboat/s. So even though that theory is most plausible, it is not very likely! :)
 
RDN1954 said:
I find this discussion on the configuration of the WB/WS absolutely fascinating. Trying to use common sense, having a thorough historical background or having building experience with a variety of ships, it's all here. Although a large amount of historical data is available and a lot of research has been done in this little not so little project, many assumptions have been made, as well as best educated guesses, in this build, but also reflected in other builds, as refered to by Heinrichin his various posts.
I think whatever decision is made, based on all the available information and freely given advice, it can hardly be disputed, since we basically don't know...
Having said that; kudos to the historians, the kit developer ánd the daring builders.Thumbs-Up

PS Whoever feels left out; my apologies!
Click to expand...
Johan, this is such a good posting of yours. The ship may be little, but the questions are HUGE! ROTF Your summary of what we are actually doing with our models we are building is one of the best, if not the best. We are dealing with assumptions and guesses which we are trying to get to sound more educated. For sure a builder can say that he either he built the De Weerdt (replica) version or the Ab Hoving-Kolderstok version. Seeing that I have personal contact with both of the latter two gentlemen plus the fact that I am building a kit, makes my decision and easy one.

I concur 100% with you on the accolades that we should bestow on the historians and those kit developers who are actually trying to put the best model out there.
 
It is good to keep emphasizing that there is no such thing as THE Barendts ship (any more). It is all educated guesswork. As long as you remember that, any plausible model will do.
I once met a man who refused to believe that the ship had three masts. More probable it would have been a one-master, in his opinion. Here I draw the line. We have proof of three masts by the De Veer's journal and many remarks proving that, even if you don't believe the famous prints.
So never say: this is how it was. It is still all hypothetical.
 
Heinrich said:
Dear Friends

So no good talking about things - let's put it together and see what it looks like.

View attachment 300867

I started by putting together the actual windlass (braadspil).

View attachment 300868

Then I took some dry shellac and mixed it with the highest-content alcohol I could find (95%).

View attachment 300869

Which then resulted in this solution.

View attachment 300870

The windlass then received two coats of shellac,

View attachment 300871

After which the wood became darker and - I think - created a "warmer" atmosphere.

View attachment 300872

Now if you thought that space was at a premium, it gets worse. The whole assembly does not fit into the space behind the foremast. I sacrificed one piece of round wood, by cutting it to a length that would protrude slightly higher than the belaying rack so that I knew exactly where and how deep to file a groove into the belaying rack. Now all fits as it is supposed to.

And then this is what the whole assembly looks like dry-fitted.

View attachment 300873

View attachment 300874

View attachment 300875

So this where I am tonight. You know me - I don't expect you to pull any punches. Let me hear what you REALLY think - I value your opinion and especially your criticism if any.

@Kolderstok Hans is this what it should look like?
@Ab Hoving Ab I need your opinion here in the only way that you give opinions - from the hip and straight! :)
Click to expand...
 
Hi Heinrich. Shellac is a great sealer I use it myself for various, if called for, projects . To get the best from shellac whether it's Orange, Blonde or ABTN (Angelo Brothers truly natural), Button shellac etc. Once the flakes has been dissolved in Pure methylated spirits it's a good idea to place the solution in a glass jar and placed on a window sill (or similar) after being exposed to sunlight the solution will separate. The original colour settling down leaving a clearer solution on top. This top clearer portion is used for finishing work in French polishing because it gives a much more translucent smoother coating(s). The raw flakes can also be heated, rolled together into stick rolls and flame melted into cracks/holes as fillers. Not sure if you're interested but I thought it may come in useful at any given later date. BTW in total awe of the build.
 
Heinrich said:
Dear Friends

So no good talking about things - let's put it together and see what it looks like.

View attachment 300867

I started by putting together the actual windlass (braadspil).

View attachment 300868

Then I took some dry shellac and mixed it with the highest-content alcohol I could find (95%).

View attachment 300869

Which then resulted in this solution.

View attachment 300870

The windlass then received two coats of shellac,

View attachment 300871

After which the wood became darker and - I think - created a "warmer" atmosphere.

View attachment 300872

Now if you thought that space was at a premium, it gets worse. The whole assembly does not fit into the space behind the foremast. I sacrificed one piece of round wood, by cutting it to a length that would protrude slightly higher than the belaying rack so that I knew exactly where and how deep to file a groove into the belaying rack. Now all fits as it is supposed to.

And then this is what the whole assembly looks like dry-fitted.

View attachment 300873

View attachment 300874

View attachment 300875

So this where I am tonight. You know me - I don't expect you to pull any punches. Let me hear what you REALLY think - I value your opinion and especially your criticism if any.

@Kolderstok Hans is this what it should look like?
@Ab Hoving Ab I need your opinion here in the only way that you give opinions - from the hip and straight! :)
Click to expand...
 
ConsNZ said:
Hi Heinrich. Shellac is a great sealer I use it myself for various, if called for, projects . To get the best from shellac whether it's Orange, Blonde or ABTN (Angelo Brothers truly natural), Button shellac etc. Once the flakes has been dissolved in Pure methylated spirits it's a good idea to place the solution in a glass jar and placed on a window sill (or similar) after being exposed to sunlight the solution will separate. The original colour settling down leaving a clearer solution on top. This top clearer portion is used for finishing work in French polishing because it gives a much more translucent smoother coating(s). The raw flakes can also be heated, rolled together into stick rolls and flame melted into cracks/holes as fillers. Not sure if you're interested but I thought it may come in useful at any given later date. BTW in total awe of the build.
Click to expand...
Hi ConsNZ - a big welcome to the Willem Barentsz build log and a double thank you to you - one for the kind words on the build and the other for that great advice on the shellac. I have a whole bag of dry flakes so I can prepare that mixture in advance for finishing touches. Also, I had no idea that it could be used as a filler - that is something brand new to me. Thank you for that!
 
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