• LUCZORAMA SHIPWRECK SCAVENGER HUNT GIVEAWAY. 4 Weeks of Fun • 1 Legendary Prize ((OcCre’s Fram Ship)) • Global Crew Welcome!
    **VIEW THREAD HERE**

HIGH HOPES, WILD MEN AND THE DEVIL’S JAW - Willem Barentsz Kolderstok 1:50

Okiedokie - the waterline is done - I am very happy and it's a keeper! Thumbsup

View attachment 324532

View attachment 324536

View attachment 324537

View attachment 324533

Sorry @Kolderstok Hans, but that is how I do a waterline. In Afrikaans we have a saying "A bok is a bliksem", so goats are not items of too much affection! ROTF

I need to touch up the two bottom wales with CLOU, but that will only be done after 24 hours of allowing the paint to dry out and harden properly. Tomorrow, in any case, is back to full-time teaching.
This gives your WB a very beautiful and stately appearance, Heinrich. I suppose the Admiral was more happy now. And you also …….
Regard, Peter
 
Hello Johan. First of all - the only reason I posted that picture was for a color reference. The replica shows a newly built full-sized ship in oak which offers the ideal opportunity to compare it to the color of the oak on my model after it had been treated with the CLOU. So, the sole purpose of the picture was for color comparison.

Now to answer your question. There are many, many differences between my build and that of the replica - not only the transom. The chief reason is simple - I am not building according to Gerald de Weerdt's plans. Of the three available plans plus De Veer's drawings, the replica is the one that I follow the least. Where there are similarities in my build to that of the replica, it is purely coincidental - in other words, my research has given me the same answers as the ones that Gerald arrived at, or it is borne out of necessity. A case in point is the position of the winch. I cannot place my winch where Ab has placed his, because Kolderstok has placed the front mast further back than Ab has - thus there is no space for the winch - and hence, I am forced to place it in the same position as the replica. The same applies to the number of gunports, where my research has also indicated six as opposed to the seven of Ab's drawings.

As far as the transom shape goes, the three different plans (Hoving, Kolderstok and De Weerdt) all show differently shaped transoms. The replica (De Weerdt) has the most elongated one, Kolderstok has the "flattest" one and Ab's is somewhere in between. Having said that, look at the position of the painted waterline on the transom of my model and that of Ab's.

View attachment 324599
View attachment 324600
You will see that the waterlines on the transoms are in virtual identical positions - and that despite the fact that on Ab's model the transom appears to be more elongated.

View attachment 324601
On the replica however - the waterline barely touches the very bottom of the transom indicating a very different interpretation to that of Hoving and Kolderstok.

Lastly, bear in mind that I am still building a kit and even though the Kolderstok kit is largely based on Ab's interpretation, it is inevitable that there will be differences. The reason for this build is to address the most serious of those differences where possible - where it is not possible, it is not possible. The only way that I will be able to build 100% according to Ab's plans is by means of a POF scratch-build.
Okay, this is a way longer answer than I bargained for, but I highly appreciate your extensive answer and the time you took to put this all together.
Having spent close to a year now on SOS, I'm painfully aware of the fact that it is de facto impossible to build an accurate model and that kit developers, historians and modelers have to compromise on the configuration of their beloved models.
Unfortunately I have this nasty habit to start asking questions when I see details I don't understand or when specific aspects are highly deviating from one model to another.
This particular detail really bothered me, because the ratios of the two shown transoms were so different.
Still, I do so enjoy your build and even more all the additional background information you are providing along the way.
 
Okiedokie - de waterlijn is klaar - ik ben erg blij en het is een blije blij! Duimpje

View attachment 324532

View attachment 324536

View attachment 324537

View attachment 324533

Sorry @Kolderstok Hans, maar zo doe ik een waterlijn. In het Afrikaans hebben we een gezegde "Een bok is een bliksem", dus geiten zijn geen items van te veel genegenheid! Rotf

Ik moet de twee bodems bijwerken met CLOU, maar dat gebeurt pas na 24 uur de verf goed te laten uitdrogen en uitharden. Morgen is het in ieder geval weer fulltime lesgeven.
Zoals je weet Heinrich, ben ik geen liefhebber van een wit onderwater schip, maar dit heb je echt bijzonder netjes gedaan en helemaal in mijn stijl zoals te zien op bijgevoegde foto, de hms Fly is het enige model wat van mij een wit onderwaterschip heeft gekregen. Vergelijkbaar met jou manier van schilderen...
Je schip van Barentzs mag gezien worden met haar witte onderwaterschip!

2012_07_25_0457.JPG
 
Thank you so much for the kind words, Hans. This afternoon, I am very happy with how the hull looks. Your Harpuis paint and the CLOU that you sent me, worked perfectly - thank you for that! Yes, I suppose human nature hasn't changed much through the centuries.

I have a question for you, though. Were all Dutch ships of that era painted below the waterline or only if they had the "dubbeling" against paalworm? The reason I am asking is that Ab told me that on the part of the wreck of Barentsz's ship that was discovered near Het behouden Huys and is now in St Petersburg, there was definitely no "dubbeling", whereas we know De Zwaan had a double layer of planking applied prior to the expeditions.
This was all a step by step evolution I think.
First there was no painting at all, but with the arrival of the worms the builders had to find a solution to prevent any hull decay. Knowing paint protects wood they started to coat the hull, but soon enough would have discovered that a paint alone would no do the trick sufficiently.
Mind you, this is all hypothetical, but to my opinion plausible.
So paint alone is not enough, lets try something extra, like the skin of a cow, plus extra wood on top so the worms can not eat themselves through it all. Also not enough, but in the meantime we are already a lot of years ahrad. Then it was cow skin, wood, paint and steel nails. It was some sort of ancient computer virus and firewall development.

Finally people discovered that a lead sheathing protected quite good, and a copper skin even better, as copper also prevents algae to grow at its surface.

Copper however had its disadvantages as well. The steel nails used to mount the planks to the bulwarks where corroding rapidly due to the electro-chemical reaction between steel and copper (with copper being the more resistant material). This caused ships simply falling apart for (at that time) unknown reasons.
 
Okay, this is a way longer answer than I bargained for, but I highly appreciate your extensive answer and the time you took to put this all together.
Having spent close to a year now on SOS, I'm painfully aware of the fact that it is de facto impossible to build an accurate model and that kit developers, historians and modelers have to compromise on the configuration of their beloved models.
Unfortunately I have this nasty habit to start asking questions when I see details I don't understand or when specific aspects are highly deviating from one model to another.
This particular detail really bothered me, because the ratios of the two shown transoms were so different.
Still, I do so enjoy your build and even more all the additional background information you are providing along the way.
No problem, Johan. I will always try to answer a question as comprehensively as I can, especially if I my answer is a multi-faceted one as was the case here.
 
Zoals je weet Heinrich, ben ik geen liefhebber van een wit onderwater schip, maar dit heb je echt bijzonder netjes gedaan en helemaal in mijn stijl zoals te zien op bijgevoegde foto, de hms Fly is het enige model wat van mij een wit onderwaterschip heeft gekregen. Vergelijkbaar met jou manier van schilderen...
Je schip van Barentzs mag gezien worden met haar witte onderwaterschip!

View attachment 324633
Piet said:
As you know Heinrich, I am not a fan of a white underwater ship, but you have done this really very neatly and completely in my style as seen in the attached photo. Tthe HMS Fly is the only model that has received a white underwater ship from me. Similar to your way of painting...

Your Barentzs ship may be seen with her white underwater hull!


Hallo Piet Hartelijk dank voor je inzetten. Ik dacht bij mezelf dat er absoluut geen kans was dat je een waterlijn zou schilderen met een bokpoot. Ik ben het met je eens dat je over het algemeen de voorkeur geeft aan de natuurlijke houtkleuren boven geschilderde afwerkings, maar hier denk ik dat de witte waterlijn het eikenhout mooi accentueert.

Hello Piet Thank you very much for your input. I thought to myself that there was absolutely no chance that you would paint a waterline with a bokpoot (sloppy). :) I agree with you on generally preferring the natural wood colors to any painted finish, but here I think the white waterline accentuates the oak nicely.
 
This was all a step by step evolution I think.
First there was no painting at all, but with the arrival of the worms the builders had to find a solution to prevent any hull decay. Knowing paint protects wood they started to coat the hull, but soon enough would have discovered that a paint alone would no do the trick sufficiently.
Mind you, this is all hypothetical, but to my opinion plausible.
So paint alone is not enough, lets try something extra, like the skin of a cow, plus extra wood on top so the worms can not eat themselves through it all. Also not enough, but in the meantime we are already a lot of years ahrad. Then it was cow skin, wood, paint and steel nails. It was some sort of ancient computer virus and firewall development.

Finally people discovered that a lead sheathing protected quite good, and a copper skin even better, as copper also prevents algae to grow at its surface.

Copper however had its disadvantages as well. The steel nails used to mount the planks to the bulwarks where corroding rapidly due to the electro-chemical reaction between steel and copper (with copper being the more resistant material). This caused ships simply falling apart for (at that time) unknown reasons.
Thank you very much for this, Hans. I understand that any answer like this will be largely hypothetical, but to me this seems entirely plausible and provides valuable insight into the construction process! Thumbsup
 
Dear Friends

With the hull completed let's look at the ballast that the Willem Barentsz carried and the importance of it.

Lead from Museum Kaap Skil to expedition ship Willem Barentsz

On Thursday 4 July 2019, Museum Kaap Skil handed over a lead bar to the Willem Barentsz Foundation. This happened on Texel in the port of Oudeschild where the lead was ceremonially loaded into a sloop.

b8b37c9b-eddc-409d-a788-635091a6932c_thumb840.jpg
The lead bar is loaded into the sloop.

The 100kg leaden bar is the first of 6,000 kilograms of lead in total that the museum will lend to the foundation for a 10-year period for the replica ship, De 'Witte Swaen'. In the coming days, the lead will be transported to Harlingen by sloop.

99090f96-bcc1-4dc9-8782-e1a1cc9c3c53.jpg
The sloop which will transport the first leaden bar to the replica ship in Haarlingen.

The lead comes from the “Loodwrak” – a wreck which was discovered in the early 80s in the Wadden Sea. The lead, which is date-stamped 1746, will form part of the ship’s ballast of 21 000 kg. Fifteen thousand kg of ballast has already been loaded while the remaining 6000 kilos needed to give the ship the right stability will be added in the coming period.

OE 5.jpeg
The leaden bars from the "Loodwrak" that will form part of the replica ship's ballast are date stamped "1746".

Ballast is also pertinently mentioned in Gerrit De Veer’s Journal.

On the 21 st of June 1596, De Veer writes that the men were collecting stones from land (presumably as additional ballast). On the 4th of August, De Veer writes again that the men – with great difficulty – were hauling stones from land. On the surface of things, it sounds unlikely that after only 6 weeks of being at sea (the journey commenced on the 10 May 1596), it is already required to take ballast aboard.

04.jpg
The Willem Barentsz's crew collecting additional ballast.

Ab offers the following interesting hypothesis: Let’s assume that each crew member drank two liters of liquids a day with a third liter (per person) used for cooking and personal hygiene. That would amount to 75 kg a day. For the 42 days between 10 May and 21 June and for the 44 days between 21 June and 4 August, the total weight (in liquids) used, would be 3.3 tons. Adding the weight of the fuel used for cooking, it would be fair to round off that figure to 3.5 tons.

This loss in ballast was deemed enough to affect the ship’s stability adversely – hence the need for the men to collect additional ballast (even if it was done with great difficulty and hard labor).

Another reason for collecting additional ballast may have come from Barentsz wanting to experiment with ballast placements for optimum performance. Captains were known to have conducted these types of tests regularly e.g., by moving the crew around to different parts of the ship. Sometimes, the smallest change could lead to the most profound results. It is mentioned that one 18th Century frigate sailed much better with the one cabin door opened than when closed. Ab mentions – tongue-in-cheek- that it is not mentioned whether the open door meant direct supervision from the captain!
 
At the beginning of Capt. George Vancouver's expedition the Discovery's escort ship the "Chatham" was found to be very "crank"( wanting to tip over :)) and they also had to put in to add ballast. This was on the first leg of their journey. I think they may have stopped at the Canary Islands but don't quote me on that. So it did happen that ships came right out of dry dock with the ballast wrong. I'm guessing that ships balance wasn't an exact science and they had to sail them to see how they handled
 
A captain of the ship needs to know a lot of things about the physics of sailing. He could see on the way a ship was lying in the water if it was correctly loaded. There where laws for that. Not pay attention to these laws will give problems handling the ship. Most because they where using the wind as a power source to move the ship. Centre of Effort, centre of lateral resistance and the centre of buoyancy are physical laws where you have to be aware of as a Captain of a ship. Especially these wooden boxes with so many sails high in the sky and just a little part of under the water. That part must be in balance with Sail, masts, yards, weight above the waterline and most of all the force of the wind blowing against it.

149b.jpg source Ab Hoving - By rule and Line

Another book to read about this subject is John Harland - seamanship in the age of sail.
But there is a lot to find on the world wide web about this subject
example
 
Hi Dom. That is very interesting - thank you for sharing that. I agree that the exact amount of ballast was probably something that had to be fine-tuned when underway. Then there was also the question of changing ballast as supplies were consumed on long journeys. It is always fascinating when I read about the quirky characteristics of some ships! :)
 
A captain of the ship needs to know a lot of things about the physics of sailing. He could see on the way a ship was lying in the water if it was correctly loaded. There where laws for that. Not pay attention to these laws will give problems handling the ship. Most because they where using the wind as a power source to move the ship. Centre of Effort, centre of lateral resistance and the centre of buoyancy are physical laws where you have to be aware of as a Captain of a ship. Especially these wooden boxes with so many sails high in the sky and just a little part of under the water. That part must be in balance with Sail, masts, yards, weight above the waterline and most of all the force of the wind blowing against it.

View attachment 324861 source Ab Hoving - By rule and Line

Another book to read about this subject is John Harland - seamanship in the age of sail.
But there is a lot to find on the world wide web about this subject
example
Wonderful information Stephan - thank you very much for that sharing that. That is absolutely true and when a ship was set up "wreed" (cruel) it would be easily dismasted in a very strong gust of wind! It was indeed a fine juggling act that the shipwrights and captains had to perform!
 
Good evening, Dear Friends

GUNPORTS

When I started this build, I identified three challenges up the point where I am now in the build - there are still plenty of other challenges ahead, but these were the three main ones until now:
  • The planking of the hull with oak as it was a completely unknown factor to me.
  • The painting of the waterline because my painting “skills” are non-existent.
  • Cutting out the gunports as the kit was never really designed for that.
With the first two challenges successfully completed, it is now time for the gunports. So, tonight, I share my planning and "think-tank" phase with you.

The first decision I had to make was the number of gunports, as Ab shows seven in his interpretation whilst Kolderstok and Gerald de Weerdt (replica) show six. I scrutinized every single drawing of Gerrit de Veer and the maximum number of gunports that I could SEE, was six. There were pictures which would actually seem to suggest a seventh, but the seventh port was never clearly visible. There were, of course, drawings that also showed only five as well. Therefore, this is very much a case of the luck of the draw to know which option is the right one. As with WB #1, I chose six as this is the number also shown on the @Kolderstok plans.

That, however, is where the similarities with WB #1 ends. On WB#1, I was able to cut out the gunports according to their exact measurements and afterwards close the gunports with the cut-outs. The chances of doing that with this build are zero. The coarse grain of the oak results in the X-Acto blade following the grain of the wood instead of the scribed lines. (How do I know this? When I tapered the planks for the hull planking, I experienced this phenomenon first hand on numerous occasions). The only way to do this, will the old-fashioned way: drill 4 holes well inside the corners of the proposed cut-out, cut out the ports from hole to hole and do the final shaping with files and a squared sandpaper stick.

Secondly, whereas WB#1 shows all gunports closed, that will not be the case on this build. Out of prior experience with WB #1 I know that the ports that coincide with bulkheads #2, #3 and #8 were problem children as their openings fell directly over these bulkheads. While there may be small differences on this build, I anticipate the same problem. Therefore, those three ports have to be closed up which means that custom-lids will have to be fabricated for them as I wouldn’t be able to re-use the cut-out sections. It is thus envisaged that the center three gunports will remain open with their installed cannons.

The third difference is that on this build it is imperative to achieve 100% symmetry in the positions of the ports on starboard-and port sides. This is because the position of the front canopy will be solely based on the position of the second gunport from the bow. Accuracy - both as far as position and symmetry go, will be of paramount importance.

Hopefully, I can show you tomorrow night how I plan to achieve this.
 
If your exacto knifes have problems with the oak of the hull, you can also dril more holes inbetween the four corners.
That way it might be easyer to cut out your portholes
 
Hello Heinrich, I was wondering about the gunports and how you would handle this. I'm looking forward to tomorrow night for your solution.
Hi Daniel. Yes, I have to do the gunports next and install the cannons that I can install - otherwise I can't fit the deck. I hope I can finish my plan by tomorrow night - this semester, the timetable is not kind to me. I will be teaching 29 out of a possible 30 lessons per week! :eek:
 
If your exacto knifes have problems with the oak of the hull, you can also dril more holes inbetween the four corners.
That way it might be easyer to cut out your portholes
That is exactly what I plan on doing my friend. The old-fashioned way is the only way that will work! :)
 
Back
Top