HMS Agamemnon by Caldercraft

[iutar]

Planning and preparing my next project, the Speedy from Vanguard Models, I looked at many pictures about the rigging of models of period ships, and what by and by caught my eyes was that the foremost shroud pairs were served while the others were not.

Hi Werner! I think the easiest place to find in Germany is a wonderful book by your fellow countryman, one of the world's best modelers and renowned rigging experts, Karl-Heinz Marquardt, "Spars, Rigging, and Sails of 18th-Century Ships." It brings together and systematizes data from all the most reliable sources of information from those years. Be sure to find this book!

 

[Jack Sparrow]

Unfortunately, dear Allan, this model was designed by Chris Watton again, and therefore is doomed from the start. Both several years ago and today, Chris stubbornly makes the same mistakes, and he does not even try to make his models more or less copy-like and reliable. Chris Watton has sold many of his designs to European scale model makers, he is little known in the US, but here in Europe we know his work well. He does a blatant hack job. He always has the wrong frames. He always has the wrong aft gallery windows. He always has the wrong deck heights and deck element locations.
He always shows the wrong gun ports, the bow bulkhead, his latrine is a slap in the face of historical accuracy, and the hatches and windlasses are a mockery of modelers.
But, even if we can still fix the height of the decks, as well as adjust the aft gallery or the forward bulkhead, and even more so replace all the small stuff on the decks, a grand failure still awaits us ahead.
This failure is Chris Wotton's complete ignorance and misunderstanding of the spars and rigging. Dear Allan, you have no idea how crazy, hospital-worthy, the spars and rigging on this model are.
We only need to look at the official data and compare it with Chris Wotton's fantasies in this model to tear our hair out (Russian designation of horror and despair, haha). Unfortunately, the Agamemnon model is complete nonsense and does not have an ounce of copyability and authenticity.
I wouldn't advise anyone to spend such a high price on this box of wooden junk. It's easier to download the plans from the Internet, especially since it's not a problem now, and make a model from scratch, it will be cheaper and, hahaha, more accurate!

I have the Vanguard Models Sphinx and it is a good kit. Is it possible that the Agamemnon kit has been modified by the manufacturer?

 

[iutar]

Dear Jack Sparrow! Chris has had many projects where he could have corrected his mistakes. But he never does. The product sells, so why waste time, money, and effort if people are already buying it? Besides, Chris is no longer working with either Victory Models or Amati.
He has his own company and new, better projects. Take a look at his new developments; they're interesting. Looking at his new developments, it's clear there's no point in Chris returning to his old projects.

Vanguard Models – Wooden Ship Kits & Accessories

Explore high-quality wooden model ship kits, fittings, and accessories designed by Chris Watton. Perfect for beginners to experienced modellers. Shop online today.

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Chris's Sphinx model is very good; it matches the drawings perfectly. But there's still room for significant improvement. At a minimum, the stems could be tapered and the decorations could be changed. If you start your Sphinx model building blog here, I can suggest improvements.

And, sadly, his early project, Agamemnon, is complete rubbish. I didn't point out the more serious errors so as not to upset the modeler (Mark). Because it's easier to throw the model in the trash and start over from scratch than to redo the mess Chris made.

 

[HMSFly]

Gentlemen,

I have read your comments with the utmost attention. Look, for clarification, the kit plan is attached....

During the construction of the model, I based myself entirely on the improvements communicated by Allan and Iutar... but regarding the rigging, I have followed the plans up to now. I am studying James Lee's book, though; see attachment. And the number of shrouds completely escaped my attention...
I will take another thorough look at everything....

 

[HMSFly]

Attached is the next step in the rigging. Can someone tell me if the Crowsfeet need to be installed?

 

[AllanKP69]

Steele's dimension tables, the foremast and mainmast each had nine pairs of shrouds.

I agree, but I usually try to go with the contemporary drawings and contracts if available as Steel is usually an average of many ships, none in particular. Ships were not built to Steel's scantlings but they are very useful when a contract or contemporary drawing is lacking. Look at the contemporary drawings of Agamemnon and you can see 10 and 12 . Who knows what the actual ship had? There were variations. Look at the contract for Nassau (64) 1782 as an example of something in between. They are nothing like the information in Steel.
Allan

 

[HMSFly]

I agree, but I usually try to go with the contemporary drawings and contracts if available as Steel is usually an average of many ships, none in particular. Ships were not built to Steel's scantlings but they are very useful when a contract or contemporary drawing is lacking. Look at the contemporary drawings of Agamemnon and you can see 10 and 12 . Who knows what the actual ship had? There were variations. Look at the contract for Nassau (64) 1782 as an example of something in between. They are nothing like the information in Steel.
Allan

View attachment 589378

Yes Allan, you are right. I should have looked at the contemporary drawing . My mistake: I didn't think that this wasn't correct either...

 

[HMSFly]

Allan,

Have you a clarification regarding the crowsfeet?

 

[AllanKP69]

Have you a clarification regarding the crowsfeet?

The use of crow's feet stopped in the later part of the 18th century. Your call but if it was me I would leave them off as I cannot find any painting of her with crow's feet. Keep in mind Caldercraft is not a research company so I would confirm any of their information with contemporary based sources to see if they have it right. They usually seem to be, but not always. In this case, it may be a toss up.
Allan

64 gun ship 1794 - no crow's feet


1775 crow's feet are present

 

[Jack Sparrow]

Dear Jack Sparrow! Chris has had many projects where he could have corrected his mistakes. But he never does. The product sells, so why waste time, money, and effort if people are already buying it? Besides, Chris is no longer working with either Victory Models or Amati.
He has his own company and new, better projects. Take a look at his new developments; they're interesting. Looking at his new developments, it's clear there's no point in Chris returning to his old projects.

Vanguard Models – Wooden Ship Kits & Accessories

Explore high-quality wooden model ship kits, fittings, and accessories designed by Chris Watton. Perfect for beginners to experienced modellers. Shop online today.

vanguardmodels.co.uk

Chris's Sphinx model is very good; it matches the drawings perfectly. But there's still room for significant improvement. At a minimum, the stems could be tapered and the decorations could be changed. If you start your Sphinx model building blog here, I can suggest improvements.

And, sadly, his early project, Agamemnon, is complete rubbish. I didn't point out the more serious errors so as not to upset the modeler (Mark). Because it's easier to throw the model in the trash and start over from scratch than to redo the mess Chris made.

thanks. Appreciate the help.